Vinyl Warm Up Time


Curiously, I am finding it’s only after a few vinyl albums into a listening session that my system starts to sound convincingly good. 

For instance yesterday, I started off with a couple of Billy Cobham albums, Spectrum and a live one. This was followed by Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe. All three albums sounded quite harsh in places, although good sound shone through in others.

It wasn’t until I got to a fourth album, Yes’s Tormato that the sound became really convincing. Then with the fifth album, Yes’s Drama things started cooking. It sounded absolutely superb.

This seems an inordinate length of time for the system, presumably the cartridge to warm up particularly in summer. It has been fairly humid recently.

I have returned to vinyl last year after a gap of five years. I don’t remember this ever being an issue in the past. In general,  I am getting a much better sound than before due to various upgrades to the turntable and the rest of the system.

I am using the same model of coil cartridge, a Linn Kandid that I used for many years previously. I bought the current one used, so it may well be getting towards the end of it’s life. The turntable was rebuilt and upgraded towards the end of 2024.

Maybe, it’s just me who takes a long time to relax and get into the listening zone. I don’t get the same issue with streaming, but then I never reach the same heights as I do with vinyl.

Is this typical of other members’ experiences? Any advice will be much appreciated. 

newton_john

Showing 7 responses by pindac

Forgetting so called Electronics Warm Up / Burn In - Optimisation through being exposed to Power On and functioning in the working environment and attaining a ideal working Temperature, forgetting that sort of stuff.

A Cartridge is a Mechanical Device with a few Interfaces between different Parts in the assembly.

The Stylus can only interface and perform at its most optimised when tracing the Modulation in the Groove, when other Interfaces usually found within the Cartridge Body are able to perform at their optimised.

A Damper is a Rubber Compound / Viscoelastic Compound that will change its properties through Heat being generated as a result of Kinetic Energy being received through the Stylus / Cantilever dancing around joined at the Hip.

Think of the early stages of the Dance in the Groove as Amateurs performing, this is due to their needs to improve not yet having found a Teacher.

When the Damper is Optimised as a Temperature, as a result of the Heating through taking on Kinetic Energy, the Tension Wire also responds differently, and will be once more at a Optimised condition for the Role is has to perform.

Think of the Optimised Damper / Tension Wire as the Ultimate Choreographers and Dance Teachers.

The Dance of the Stylus / Cantilever becomes Broadway Quality when the Damper / Tension Wire are Optimised through their functioning at a Optimal Temperature. 

When it comes to Damper Technology, Ortofon are World Leaders with their Subsidiary Companies R&D carried out, along with Manufacturing numerous materials, which are very very stable in the typical environments, certainly not degrading / Cracking / Dissolving when exposed to Ozone. Many of the Products produced under the Ortofon Brand are suitable as a Damper Part.

Where Ortofon Wins is they choose the Parts with a extremely long user life to suit the Voicing they want. I understand the Verismo had it own bespoke compound produced by Ortofon.

A Budget Option is in the Link, but a Stylus as already discussed is needed to bring out a little of the magic hidden within!! 

 https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=48131.0  

The Following is from a Thread created by an individual who commands respect in the World of the Phono Cartridge, those with the highest regard publicly converse with him.

A incorrect Zenith Mounting for a Stylus on a Cantilever might just be a trivial problem where some Cart's are concerned.  

It is easy to Spend Big and get a Bum Deal - Caveat Emptor

" The most honest and most problematic of modern cartridges.
I have always liked and continue to like the sound of ZYX, but since an indefinite time there has been a change in the damper material, which led to a terrible effect. The damper no longer holds its shape under the powerful pressure of the magnetic field, which turns the coils inside out.
Damper deformation leads to a terrible channel imbalance, which reaches 3 - 6 dB.
I repeat that the cartridge has a very good sound while it is young.
I would require that the product's production date and expiration date be marked on the packaging, just like in the grocery department of a store.

Does the ZYX company know about this? I think they know, at least the dealers who get rid of expired products at reduced prices are well aware of this.  "

 

 

 

    

A Cartridge that has been sat idle as a Nearly New or close to its End of Usage Life, that has idled for a period, will have lost the effects of Kinetic Energy on the properties of the Damper Compound.

The Damper will Only Optimise and hence Tension Wire only Optimise, as a result of receiving Energy, which is converting to heat, hence the name for the Part is a    ( Damper ), the Part Damps Transferred Energy.

The Stylus effectiveness at producing a Facsimile of Groove Modulation to be sent for conversion to a Electrical Signal, will be much more beneficial, when other Parts that impact on its function are at their Optimised working condition.     

Energy never dissipates, Energy Transforms to a different form of Energy.

Amplitude that is carrying Energy Dissipates and materials with Intrinsic Properties suitable to manage Amplitude, when carefully selected will substantially reduce Amplitude.

Cartridges are uniquely voiced by how a Design is able to Treat Amplitude. A Cantilever > Damper Marriage are quite important considerations.

Cantilever Mass / Material, Damper Material/Materials, Tension Wire Type, Tensioning of Wire and Cartridge Body Material, are where a Cartridge becomes uniquely Voiced.

Other Parts are more generic and will pass on their unique influences within a range of Cart's, (Family Voicing / Sound ) it is the above that brings the differences to the Siblings in the Range on offer.       

@bdp24 I read your short post, the antithesis of my own posts produced.

The content clearly was a response to having understood a Damper and Tension Wire requires a period of time of receiving Energy to become Kinetic Energy and create Heat for the parts to become optimised in their function.

I get the recommendation, for those that don't an analogy to help could be:

If you can't stand the thought of a Dog leaving a turd on your perfect lawn, then why have the perfect lawn and own a dog devil.

Making a Pet of a Robotic Lawn Mower makes more sense.

If one feels silly doing this, the Link might be offering a more fitting solution.

 https://www.robopets.co.uk/?msclkid=5b64bdb2db7619c2ec82d5c320c84424 

@joeycastillo stated " Anything on the chain can be doing except you pre and power as you mentioned that Streaming is not affected, leaving it happening on the analog side. "

Under the guise assessments made within this thread are based on End Sound being subjectively assessed.

None of the devices referred to in the quote are producing Sound, they are managing an electrical current, either as part of producing the signal to be sent, or Amplifying / Adding Gain to the sent Signal.

The Signal only becomes sound after having left the Xover in a Speaker, where at such a place electrical energy is converted in to Kinetic Energy, that is to move a device that moves air, hence, Electrical Energy from the Source is transferred to sound and Sound Energy is migrating into local structures.

There can also be the suggestion Migrating Amplitude, can effect the local structures where certain materials being effected react in a way that is bettering the End Sound being heard to the environment. Improved Absorption or a less harsh reflection could be the effect on a material being exposed to energy from sound.     

A Driver that is creating the movement of air, is made up of a variety of materials that have a mechanical function and also are assembled in a way that interfaces between the materials that are used.

In the same way the Cartridge requires the effects of Kinetic Energy to warm it and enable the selected materials to become optimised in their function. The Speakers Drive Units are requiring very very similar from the Kinetic Energy being produced.

Nearly all users of all speaker designs will inform on a Period of usage being required before the Speakers reach their Sweet Spot.

As for Amp's try explaining to a Amp user where Valves are in the Circuit that a period is not required until the Sweet Spot is the manifest.

I am to start using SS again in my system, I can easily add a SS Device when all other items are discernible for their having reached an optimised function. It will not be long before I learn if a SS Device benefits the End Sound being produced from a period of being in use.

I would not myself encourage anybody with a Very Expensive Cart' and having heavily invested in getting the Set Up for the Cart' dialled in to near perfection, to remove the Cart' and bring in a much lesser model to see if their Cart' is faulty unless it is exposed to a period of Kinetic Energy effecting the critical mechanical interfaces.  

Start at the Sixth Minute and Listen until the Thirteenth Minute and much is shared about Kinetic Energy produced and Amplitude Migration being channeled within a Cart'. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQeut0__a_4

The Following is the Info added to a Very Well Respected Cartridge Producers Web Page about Dampers used in general.

Suspension

A phono cartridge suspension is like the gatekeeper to success in a phono cartridge. The suspension is typically made with a compliant elastomer material that allows the cantilever to move freely in the dimensions the stylus requires, but also acts to damp resonance coming from the cantilever. It also to stave off micro jitters of stylus in the record groove, and holds the cantilever in its proper place relative to the generator. How much it moves is measure in ‘cu’ (compliance units). It is expressed as a number that looks like this: 10-6cm/dyne@100Hz, or in everyday speak, 10cu. The higher the first number, the more compliant the suspension. The lower the number, the stiffer the suspension (less compliant). The suspension is typically positioned along the cantilever so that it defines the pivot point of the cantilever assembly, and is located much closer to the generator than to the stylus. If designed incorrectly (too stiff, not stiff enough, too much rebound, too long a memory, or treated incorrectly), sound quality as well as stylus/record life will be negatively impacted. Tracking force and even room temperature are further considerations for a properly performing suspension. A correctly designed and applied suspension system perpetuates a stylus that can smoothly and effortlessly follow the record groove, allowing the moving structure at the opposite end of the stylus to interact with the generator in a uniform way. As the suspension is typically made from a variety of rubber, it is susceptible to degradation over time due to shear use, but also due to environmental conditions. A suspension system in a hot and humid environment will not last as long as one in a mild climate, just as a cartridge in a very hot and dry climate will also be adversely affected. If the turntable is in direct sunlight, it will shorten the life. Advances in materials over the years have provided more robust rubber compounds that hold up better, but the very small amount of material relative to the amount of vibrational energy it deals in makes for a very difficult design brief for engineers. In terms of performance, a consistent ambient temperature is the single greatest key to getting a consistently great result from a properly set up phono cartridge. Some audiophiles even place a lamp near the turntable to control the ambient temperature for the
cartridge, and many even keep a temperature gauge nearby. For practical purposes, a suspension too cold is not sufficiently compliant, a suspension too warm is excessively compliant. "

 

 

@tcutter If these are SS Amp's, I sense a little music heard as Background Music will make the optimisation period feel speeded up. If Valve Amp's I can only suggest keeping close and having 'eyes on' the Amp's when in use.

'Eyes On' has always been the discipline in my home, hence the SS set up for the Wife that is now being investigated / built for her purposes. Vinyl Source and conventional Box Speakers for the eyes on sessions. CD / Streamer for the mooching around the home, maybe for this a Wireless Speaker set up as well. 

As somebody who has been to experience Cartridge Demo's using Same Headshell > Tonearm > TT and Audio System.

It is experienced on quite a few occasions that a Cart' that has been declared as not used for a period of time, takes a period of time to come on song.

Usually those doing the listening / assessing are needing to agree when the perceive it is performing at the point it is now worthwhile commenting on.

I have absolutely no doubts Cart's of the designs I am familiar with are needing a period of usage to offer a optimised performance, when the effects of Kinetic Energy on the Cart' has diminished. 

There is absolutely nothing to suggest from my end this is a Bad Thing.

Mr J Carr has made known other inefficiencies about energies being encountered, which is what it is, the Cart' is not perfect as a mechanical device for using the embedded data it is designed to pass on to become electrical energy, much of the energy sent is dumped.

The energy dump is not discriminating, both Valuable and Not so Valuable are sent on as Signal and Dumped.