Mar00; I just finished doing essentially the same thing you did-- and we're probably going to get "roasted" on this. I bought an MMF-5 TT and Musical Fidelity Phono pre-amp (M. Fremer of STPH, and Listener Mag. both highly recommended this TT). I used it for a couple of weeks and then happily went back to CDs (I have a Levinson M 37 transport and 360S DAC). I also started out with no preconceived expectations about the sound quality of vinyl, and in fact it cost me $400.-500. to try out this system. I also grew up using 45's and LPs and had fond memories of them. I compared new virgin vinyl LPs to the same CDs and definitely preferred the dramatically quieter background of digital. In fact, I was not able to listen past the "white noise, static, and crackling" of the LPs-- is all that background noise part of "hifi"?-- it gave me a headache. For LP cleaning I borrowed a VPI vacuum record cleaner from a vinyl junkie friend and carefully followed his directions for cleaning used/old LPs. Some new LPs, while quite good, were no better than good CDs. And of course CDs have some significant features such as direct track access, programming, and repeat that cannot be easily dismissed-- and they don't affect sound quality. Having stuck my neck way the hell out on this, I will admit that I would expect Albert Porter's system to be sonically much better than my CD based system, but Albert is at state of the art analog. Cheers. Craig. |
Doug; seems we've been here before. And I post the following respectfully. I really like my digital system too and would be willing to "put it up against any comparably priced analog system", but in reality, how do we make this bold comparison. Have you ever actually put together an excellent digital system in your own home? Or just listened at audio stores? My best audio friend is into vinyl, and I've listened to his system many times: Well Tempered TT and CJ pre-amp w/phono, Levinson amp into MG 3.6 speakers. His system sounds totally different than mine, and I don't particularly care for it-- no weight, no body, no substance, very airy, soft mushy bass etc. But I think I'm mainly hearing his speakers character and room acoustics, and not so much his LPs-- of course, he loves it. I've also played MY LPs on his system with the same results. My system OTOH is more dynamic, more rich, more lush, with strong, deep, taut, quick bass; just overall more weight, and IMO more musical. Our music tastes are also quite different. I have treated room acoustics, vibration(s), dedicated AC and ground, HQ wire througout including AC cords. I have carefully, over several years, put this system together TO SOUND GREAT WITH CDs. If I had vinyl as a source, chances are I would have chosen different audio components and wires to complement the sound of LPs. Just because you say your $2K analog system is better than any digital system at any price, does not mean that I or anyone else has to believe it, and in fact, I don't. But I do respectfully agree to disagree. And BTW, I'm glad you've spent time in Oregon-- we agree that it's beautifl. Cheers. Craig. |
Hi Mar00; Sorry, I didn't mean to sort of "take over" your thread, but at least all the above is "on topic", and I hope useful to you. John_1; I too had a new LP of CJs "The Trinity Session" and with the MMF-5 TT it had excessive "white noise" that was clearly audible during quiet passages, and I was generally disappointed with it compared to the CD-- BTW that is one of my favorite albums and I am very familiar with the music. YOU OTHER VINYL LOVIN' BUGGERS-- I appreciate your civil responses:), and I suppose this is one of those questions that is trying "unscrute the unscrutable". Cheers. Craig. |
Hi Gmorris; We were posting at the same time, so I missed your comment. No, I would not be satisfied with a $500. CD player after having my present system. But you don't have to spend as much on an analog system to equal HQ CD--IMHO, eg I think Doug is right, and I would GUESS that his $2K analog rig is as good as my $10K+ (MSRP) digital rig. My problem with analog-- and it's personal-- is that I could not listen past the various background noises of LPs, and for that reason, I found LPs fatiguing-- loud ticks and pops did not bother me. The Audio Advisor sales rep. told me a better cartridge would help reduce the surface noise, but would not eliminate it. Cheers. Craig. |
Hi Rockvirgo & TM12; I just looked up the definition of ANALOG in a new Webster's New World Dictionary. Definition #3 follows: "designating or of electronic equipment, recordings, etc. in which the signal corresponds to a physical change, as sound to a groove in a phonograph record". I still like CDs too Rock, but I've got to admit that this definition clearly indicates that Lps are a classic example of "analog". Cheers. Craig. |
Doug; I did consider the mis-match possibility and discussed it with a pretty knowledgeable Audio Advisor Rep. The TT came with the Goldring cartridge ($175.)installed and adjusted, but my vinyl junkie friend also checked it for me. I also got the Musical Fidelity X-LPS phono pre-amp from AA at the same time, as they recommended it highly with the MMF-5 and Goldring. The only control on it was a switch for MM/MC cartridges, which I made sure was set correctly. I can identify with Joe_b above. After this experiment, I decided to get rid of my modest LP collection (300-350). I called around some, and nobody wanted them. A local music store offered me 25 to 75 cents each for the ones he thought could sell, and he told me that they "buy LPs reluctantly and sell them gladly". I said to hell with that and gave the whole works to a local charity-- except for six that I kept for the cover art. I only did this because M. Fremer, of Stereophile,(he's the analog guru isn't he?) confidently stated that the MMF-5 TT would make a vinyl lover out of the most hard core digiphile. And I don't even consider myself anti-vinyl-- never have. But, I certainly do disagree with M.Fremers conclusion re: the MMF-5. P.S. If any audiogon member wants a once played MFSL LP of Bob Seger's "Against The Wind", cover and vinyl are mint, for $20. + about $3. shp., email me (I bought it sealed on ebay for $30.). Enough Already. Cheers. Craig. |
Hi Blzbub; I appreciate your above post as it agrees 100% with my recent attempt at trying to get back into vinyl. You probably read this whole thread, and know that I had quite a bit of input early in the thread. As with your experience, the main turn-off to me regarding vinyl was simply NOISE-- not the loud ticks and pops, but the continuous "white noise", to static, to crackling. Even with brand new HQ vinyl, I was aware of the stylus dragging along the grooves. But I also agree that good vinyl can sound more natural than CD-- until you get up to a very good digital front end, which I have, and I assume you do too. I felt relieved and relaxed when I went back to the "quietness" of digital. While I respect vinyl junkies and their committment (my best audio friend is a vinyl junkie) to the format, it's not for me for the very reasons you mention, and especially the noise. I also agree about M. Fremer, while he believes what he is doing, he is too zealous and not very tolerant. Never-the-less, I'm glad I "had a go" at re-trying vinyl 'cuz now I know for sure. I don't know what you're going to do with your vinyl collection, but nobody wanted mine, and I ended up giving 300-350 LPs to a charity in hopes that they could make a little off them-- I even felt a little guilty, but they said "thanks". Cheers. Craig |
Hi Albert; We were posting at the same time so I missed your well written statement above. I respect your views as much as anyone on this forum, and I have no doubt that your state of the art analog rig sounds better than my "quite good" digital one. As stated above I could not listen past the noise of the modest vinyl rig I tried-- further, I am very happy with my CD based system. Vinyl lovers seem to think they are the only ones committed to working at getting the most music out of their systems as possible, and with this I partly disagree. While maybe less work, I have installed dedicated AC and ground systems, spent 61 days placing speakers within room, built a 200 lb. stereo stand with many audiophile features, addressed vibration control, upgraded power cords (and all wires), and purchased the best quality digital front end that I can afford. I continue to try promising "tweaks" and enjoy doing it. BTW, it took me a month working 1/2 days just to build my stereo stand. My point is that there is much that the digital user can do to improve the musicality of his system too. Finally, I say again, your state of the art analog system undoubtedly "sounds" better than my CD based rig, and I would love to hear your system, but weighing every experience I can, I get a great deal of enjoyment out of the music system that I have (so maybe it's best that I don't hear your system), and for me that's enough. Cheers. Craig. |
........forgot to mention all the room acoustic treatments I've done-- spent much time and money doing it too. I do not intend to get involved in a long unresolvable disagreement between the virtues of vinyl and digital-- and I don't think Albert does either. In fact, I'll give up right now and go play my new Cowboy Junkies CD "Waltz Across America", respectfully, and cheers. Craig. |
