Vinyl or wait for the new stuff??

a guy could wait til hell freezes ovrfor the new formats to proliferate. in the meantime, a guy can have a load of fun assembling a decent LP playback system and acquire a mountain of black vinyl. i have around 7k of them and still buy nearly weekly, and sometimes more (too) often).
meanwhile, conventional cd and the LP format will satisfy the need for music and quality playback.
the immediacy and solidity are readily detectable. the spaciousness and solidity with LP is quite reassuring and changing cartridges shows you the different strengths of these devices. a lot more fun than changing d/a convertors. i have about 9 carts mounted and ready to swap.
.......regards.....tr

Availability is a huge concern. Is the music you want to listen to available on the "next new format?" SACD ond DVD have extremely limited choices. Virtually anything is available on vinyl. Somethings are just harder to find than others. CDs are convienient but lots of things couldn't be obtained. Most new releases are available on vinyl but only as imports so you still have the choice to buy if you want.
I've been getting back into vinyl recently after doing turntable/CD comparisons and am very happy with the results.

Nate

We have recently gotten back into vinyl. Yes the cd's are more convenient... but there is something very satisfying about cleaning the LP and placing the tonearm on that vinyl. Even my wife was amazed at the sound, she loves the MFSL recordings. The funny thing was, that after quite a long session of farely loud playing, we never felt like turning down the volume. That harsheness never materialized! And you know what the funny part of that was, I hadn't noticed the cd's harsheness, until we started playing our LP's again. My advice is... don't wait. You really don't know what you're missing!

best mactching, best set up analogue still the best.

You will never regret having the classic experience of vinyl. I still enjoy throwing an old "disk" on the turntable and relaxing with music from the 60's on up!

I've been in analog since the intro of LPs. I don't have a vast collection---in early years, I simply couldn't afford to buy lots of records, and my taste in music is rather limited to classical, and even then, to more modern stuff (Prokofiev, Shostakovich, Ravel, etc.), but it's one I still enjoy. More recently, I've become partial to piano trios, quartets, quintets, and small chamber orchestras. In brief, there is now, and always has been, a limited amount of software available that I enjoy. For this reason, I've been reluctant to get into SACD---of the few SACDs available, I've found only about six, maybe eight, that I would want. I hope that will change soon, but only time will tell.

I recently upgraded speakers, pre- and pwr-amps, phono preamp,etc., and have ordered a better cartridge to replace the BPS on my Rega P3. So it's obvious that I'm seriously back into analog. My Wadia 830 is great, but I still hear the dreaded CD grit/grain on many disks. I think SACD might be the answer to many prayers.

As far as the monetary outlay is concerned, look at what you can buy in vinyl, compared to the cost of an average CD. I know of at least two stores in Atlanta where there is a great selection of used/new vinyl at a fraction of what a CD costs. I'm sure such a selection exists in most major cities. RR, Classic, Chesky LPs are all excellent, but their prices are comparable to CDs, or maybe even higher in some cases, although I feel sonics are superior to CDs.

So I plan to keep the CDs I have, add to them when the notion hits me, and do the same with vinyl. I recently dug out some of my LPs---ones I couldn't/didn't listen to before---and with the new equipment many are better than any CD I have.

I'm gonna wait and see what happens. Certainly one, or maybe both, of the new formats will make it. When that happens, prices of machines will drop, and the selection of SACDs or DVD-As will multiply, also with diminishing prices----best of both worlds.
Vinyl is here now,it's good, and it's affordable, even if you have to start from scratch!

In my opinion, vinyl provides an unexplainable quality in reproducing music vis-à-vis digital. I feel that there is a noticeable “blending” of instrumentation and voices with vinyl – including much smoother transients. If your purpose, however, is instrument discrimination, digital might be your bread and butter… but, if you don’t mind a little extra attention to your “software” and simply enjoy music, then vinyl is the way to go. Additionally, I don’t really believe that one must spend excessively to reap the benefits of either vinyl or digital. I would contend that more emphasis be placed upon amplification means (I prefer vacuum tubes to solid state), speakers, quality of the LP or CD, and the inter-relationship of all your components, including cables.

Detlof, I'm with you on this one. A live example. I have an ancient Zarathustra 4 w/ Pluto arm (both still working -- no servicing) & Clearaudio Victory exhibition model. PCM digital is Symphonic LIne Reference, exhibition modell again.
Listened to Mahler 1 on CD (Bruno Walter, NYSO) on sony: powerfull stuff. Found an OLD vinyl of same (not 1st edition...). Listened to same with mmusician friends. No comparison... to give one example: musicians picked out 2 short-comings in the string section beginning part2 on vinyl; couldnt do same on cd. Other examples abound esp on voice recordings.
Myoussif -- pcm digital is the problem. Wait till something better is standard (SACD?)

I have SACD, 24/96 and upsampled CD setups. I have chosen the equipment (Forsell, Audio Logic, Purcell) based on its musicality and how close I can get it to sound like real music. But when I want to be moved fully by the music, I still will always choose vinyl. SACD comes close, but still appeals more to the logical side of my brain (I have heard it said, and think it's true, that SACD doesn't sound like analog or digital, it sounds like the master tape). I agree with many of the above that you don't have to spend a fortune on a good arm, table and cartridge to enjoy vinyl, and there are plenty of old records and excellent reissues available. I'd say go for it!

I happen to own both a very highly resolving digital, as well as very renowned analog front end. I listen through electrostats, coupled with subs. It so happened that the electronics in my Goldmund arm went bonkers and I had to wait to have it repaired for exactly a year. It was not the fault of Goldmund, but one of their distributors here in Switzerland went bonkers as well, ( no joke )so the arm had "disappeared". So I listened only to digital through the excellent Purcell upsampler and quite enjoyed it, I was even thrilled sometimes. But I was compeletely flabberghasted, when I could play LP's again: The music bloomed, the soundstage opened up, the air between instruments became alive and vibrating, not this deadly void, this black nothing, which CD presents and which is so unnatural. I could listend to big orchestral works again, which I found on CD mostly uninvolving and flat in their presentation, so for me its vinyl for sure. However I have not had the chance to listen to any of the new formats. Anyway, after a one year hiatus, I had forgotten how much better that old technology is MUSICALLY in comparison even to the best presentations which CD can offer.

I love my digital gear, but my Vinyle will always be there.

I am certainly one of the most dedicated analog guys at this site, but the new Sony 9000ES, that will play DVD movies with progressive scan output, CD and SACD for about $1100.00 puts real pressure on me to buy one. The opportunity to purchase a top end DVD movie machine and get SACD, almost for free, really tempts me. If I do take the leap, I do not have expectations of it competing with my high end analog rig. However, it would be nice to have a state of the art movie machine that would also provide good playback from CD and SACD formats. If, eventually the SACD format fails, I can wear out the player with titles from Blockbusters Video, and my existing CD library. Meanwhile, I will continue to browse the discount stores for the millions of great titles available on LP, best to you all!

I stopped by Goodwill in Sandy, OR on my way home from skiing yesterday. I found an original copy of Dave Grusen's 'Time Out' for $1.99. A little high, for Goodwill. Great Record, and the sound is terrific. Part of the fun of records is finding cool stuff like that.

I think SACD will be a great format, but the media is $25/each. In other terms, that's 40 records for $1000 ! There is just so much great stuff out there on vinyl that will never surface on SACD. That being said, I will probably buy an SCD-1 within the next year. I hear you can get them for under 3K new now. That's a $2000 upgrade over my already excellent XA7ES CD player.

If you don't already own a bunch of records, then gravitate to SACD. Sony Sacd1, will give you not only the sacd format, but is an exceptional cd player as well!

Excellent point John, and not unlike some of the bargains I have found. I suggest those of you that have decided to give LP a try, keep your eye open for Public Libraries that sell out their analog collection. There are some rare and incredible items in these public stores, and many have seen very little or no use at all! add to that fact, much of this excellent material is not available in other music formats, at any price! I know of one person who bought multiple London Blueback LP's at .50 cents apiece. These albums are not only some of the finest classical music ever produced, they have increased in value to the point where resale of them could furnish your shelves with hundreds of lesser pieces of material.

And another from 'rainy' Oregon. Our votes almost counted this year !

I agree with david99 that you don't have to spend really big bucks to get good sound on vinyl. I bought my mint condition rega 25 w/super elys from a local dealer for $850.

The real value is access to interesting and new recordings. Especially classical recordings. I just bought a bunch of good quality rca red label and gramaphone records for fifty cents a piece. Quality sh*t like Perlman and Starker. I seem to recall having to spend fifteen bucks for their cd recordings. It also introduces a whole new realm of old recordings that you simply don't have access to if you have cd only. I just bought the Duanne Allman anthology vol II. A weird collection of songs that i would have never paid $15 for. I did pay $4. Discovered a few real gems (like duanne and herbie mann (flute) swapping leads on "push push".) That one's getting played at parties! Also bought a collection of Everest recording Gregorian chants - 4 albums for $1. Never would have bought this on cd. Tried it out. If I don't like it I can use them and save on paper plates. Hauntingly beautiful music. On the 25th, they will go well with my new Supremes and John Denver christmas albums. (50 cents each - did you have to ask?)

Hey Albert here is one "hand" for analog from sunny Florida.

Myoussif is asking a rational question to those of us that are slightly obessive in getting the best sound. From his post it reads that he knows he will spend a lot to get into to to another format and is asking for our advice. Myoussif, if you can afford it then go for Vinyl now. The new format wars aren't done yet SACD, DVD-Audio or what. It time to wait. However, Vinyl has the great library of the best performances and recordings of the stereo era. Most people agree that there was a period (roughly) from 1954 to 1968 when the great labels were carefully doing stereo recording. Tons of used records are available and the re-issues are so damn good that it would be a same to pass up this opportunity. Personal side bar is that I have never regretted pursuing what I like and the vinyl vs cd discussion is fun but pointless. Get the music and enjoy it. If you like several different medias so be it. I prefer vinyl like Albert Porter. Someone can like MP3 and I could give a rat's ass. Thank God we are different in our tastes - that leaves better pickings for all groups. Vinyl vs CD makes for a passionate discussion in sharing views, and we learn by usually picking up good music suggestions from the other person's opinions. BTW: having friends over for music sessions usually gives us a chance to share our music finds or compare several different artist or performances of the same works. We always enjoy the music and our discussions on our music preferences. Usually, preferences on equipment or media is never discussed. Myoussif, go for the vinyl and have some fun.

One more thing, thank you for the peace offering, I do want to make friends here. We all have one goal in common and that's to enjoy listening! How we get there will always be up for discussion. I just love music!

Now Now, let's try not to forget the all important absentee ballots. Those who use there portables, I know if they get in the vote is sure to swing.... Then I guess we'll need to know the best headphones for under $10.

Albert,did you do a stand up on The Tonight Show the other night? I swear it was you! :)

Well then, it stands that we have one person who owns both formats and says that LP is superior, and one person who owns both formats that says digital is superior. I say lets take it to Florida and get a recount. But remember, the analog gets a hand recount, and the digital goes into a machine for the total. I just hope for your side, that the digital is in a "1" mode and not a "0" mode when checked.

Hey Albertporter, I see you don't understand my responce. I in no way downgraded vinyl, I just was wondering why like myself now, any pro digital responce requires a tort responce from others. I was most impressed with Carl_eber for not doing so. I too have both, but given the limited music avalible, size of my digital library, and advances in digital sound quality my answer to the original question is Digital.

Jadem6, I don't know if you have carefully read some of the above posts that ridicule analog. Why is it when the question is: "Vinyle or wait for the new stuff," it is wrong to offer strong support for the format I think is best? I do not question that the LP format will be displaced by digital, regardless of it's superiority or not. My point is that new does not necessarily mean better. I have digital and LP in my own system, and like Carl, wonder what would be the problem with enjoying both. If digital makes you feel you are "looking forward," and that is of equal or greater importance to you than the quality afforded by analog, then avoid LP all together. I guess I do not understand why you think that a suggestion that I believe guarantees musical excellence, somehow automatically makes everyone else "not worthy."

I agree Jade, it is sad when people must align themselves in such a way as to not see the other point of view, or horror of horrors, to USE BOTH VINYL AND CD....

I think some how I must be missing the point. The original question was "Vinyle or wait for the new stuff??" Are the vinyle opinions the only right ones and those who feel digital is looking forward and anolog has reached it's golden age just plane wrong and not worthy? It's sad that people can not feel comfortable expressing there viewpoint without being chastized for expression. I for one feel that my investment in software is one factor. I have a SACD player that I believe (my opionon) has raised the bar quite a bit. I for one will continue to move forward with the industry and enjoy my "inferior" equipment and lack of "natural" sound.

Hi Albert,good to see you post again.Its not the same here when you arent around.As I agree with your above comments I really dont believe one has to spend $40,000++ to get superior analog vs digital sound.Also,you are so correct that ANYONE who really has ventured into analog playback and did it right has no doubt which is better.You dont but I do deal with audio dealers.They will take you straight to the CD players when you ask to hear something but when analog is mentioned their eyes light up!! This happens everytime and most dealers still have analog in their systems (at least the ones I know) So,yes your point is very true.It has to be done right or ya might as well live with inferior digital.Happy Holidays Albert! :)

John_l, pleased to read your comments in defense of vinyl. Carl has expressed his preference, and now, so will I. The general topic is one of High End Audio, and therefore is NOT limited to "best value," or most convenient audio. To me that means that the ultimate performance people have a right to comments as well. Therefore, I say to Joe_coherent or anyone else that says that CD is superior to LP, then you have not heard vinyl at it's full potential. Perhaps the statement that inexpensive LP playback equipment will not compete with similarly priced digital gear may in fact be correct. The vinyl format requires tremendous work to make perfect, and if the work is put in, it can be made to work better than any other music format. This (of course) excludes those who have access to original master tapes of musical performances. I will not argue for vinyl concerning value, the availability of new titles, convenience of operation, or justify that everyone should put in the work required for a perfect set up. I WILL state that if the labor and money are invested, nothing will compete with the performance LP can provide. Personally, for me to get there, I have (at retail) $46,000.00 just in the turntable, phono cartridge and the equipment DIRECTLY associated to play an LP. This certainly does not include my music library, the record cleaning equipment or the substantial investment in the remainder of my system (including the Soundlab Ultimate 1's). You can ridicule my substantial investment, call me crazy, or just dedicated. However, if you have not heard LP playback at this level, you are correct ONLY within your realm of experience. To further clarify my personal position, I do not deal with any retail stores, I do advertising photography for the audio business, with ads in nearly every high end publication printed this month. I have been in or around the high end audio business for over 30 years, and am personal friends with many of the people who manufacture the products discussed at Audiogon. There are no manufacturers within my experience that will NOT agree that LP is superior. This may have to be discussed in the hallway at CES, or at their home, but it is none the less common knowledge in the business. This does not mean that CD cannot be wonderful, it certainly does not mean you should abandon digital and move to LP. It simply means that if the ultimate musical performance is really valuable to you, the LP format is a requirement.

Merits to both formats. Some of the brand new digital recordings such as 'Pat Metheny and Jim hall', and the diana krall recordings sound excellent on my 44khz player. I would guess that they use tube mics to get that nice warm sound. On my equivalently priced cd/vinyl (about 3K each) systems, I do much prefer the sound of a vinyl recording to a CD. This preference has increased the as I listen to the record player more. I've only had it for a few weeks. Vinyl has won three a/b comparisons with different recordings from different eras (the trinity session, ricky lee jones, and the original glen gould bach preludes). I like the naturalness and sense of presence that a record has. A cd recording feels like it's floating on air, whereas the vinyl feels like its sitting on a concrete foundation. CD's have an ethereal quality to them. You're a little less 'there'. It's a little like driving a windows-up air conditioned 4x4 verses hiking. Easier but more forgetable. I am hoping the newer formats like SACD, and 96khz will bring some of this 'thereness' back. After all, many of the new records are digital recordings. One of my vinyl vs CD preferences, the wonderful 'trinity session' album was made on an RDAT machine w/one microphone. Their recording equipment could probably fit into a suitcase ! Perhaps much of CD's harshness comes from downsampling. Another source of harshness may be cheap cd players. A cheap cd player emphasizes the 'digital harshness', or brittleness. Once you hear it, it bothers you.

One practical consideration is the availability of media. IMHO, I believe that a quality analogue front end still surpasses the best 16 bit gear available today. While I've abandoned analogue for the convienence of CD, an in-law of mine remains committed. I understand his greatest issue today is not pouring concrete turntable foundations, maintaining exotic bearing assemblies or keeping his disks microscopically clean - but the never ending hunt for decent vinyl to play. The new digital formats appear to much more closely approach analogue quality. I suspect that for whichever format emerges dominant, there will be no eventual shortage of media. So for me, I've decided to hobble along with the 16 bit stuff a little longer.

I've done that many times, and in addition "accuracy" was favored with the LP also. My CD player costs $3000, and my LP front end costs around $2900, including phono stage. It's easy to criticize those who are debating this, until you join in, then you might better understand. For instance, if I were Joe, I would tell you that "you simply aren't making a logical argument, and thus your thoughts have no valid basis to be included here". Only if he said it, it would be much more rude, much less evolved...And you watch, he'll say that I'm dead wrong, and treat you with the highest respect, just to spite me. I have his number, 1-800-blowhard...

Why do the majority of you guys waste your time on these angry personal assaults ? Many of us have been away from vinyl for years and probably harbor many misconceptions about how vinyl stands up against digital in 2000. Vinyl is inherently more surface noisy and generally more complicated to deal with, HOWEVER, IT SOUNDS MORE ACCURATE & NATURAL THAN CD. We can debate the reasons for the differences till the cows come home, but what's the point ? If,in fact, what we are trying to do in this hobby is re-create live music in our homes- then I contend that well executed vinyl playback sounds more natural than well executed cd playback- on a dollar for dollar basis.If more natural is more correct than vinyl is better. If more natural is not more correct than I'm mixed up as to what we are supposed to be trying to achieve. The acid test- demo your favorite well recorded cd & lp of the same title and decide which sounds more natural, more pleasing- AND LEAVE IT AT THAT !!!

And Joe, merely stating that you "respect someone's opinion" isn't enough. Anyone can discern, from reading the context and attitude in your statements, that it is clear that YOU are the one who wants "your own totalitarian kingdom". Too bad you'll never be man enough to have one...

Joe, I'd define a "pariah" as someone who got kicked out of Audio Asylum, and is soon to be kicked off of Audiogon.

I bought my first pair of Magnepans and moving coil cartridge when I was 15 years old in 1979 so I have some experience with this topic. Despite the fact that my system has grown and evolved over the years to include Mark Levinson CD, Jadis amplifiers and speakers including Apogee ribbons and Martin Logan SL 3s etc. I have been puzzled to admit that I NEVER EVER EVER really listen to or enjoy my stereo AT ALL anymore, other than switching it on for background music at low volumes when I am reading or entertaining. I thought maybe I was just getting old or romanticizing the musical experiences of my youth but it is increaslingly clear that the answer and culprit is CDs!!!!! They are nasty and unsatisfying little things in every way from their migraine inducing character, their annoying anti theft tape, their cheap dime store packaging, lack of liner notes and vulgar masss market acceptability. I went into a store recently and heard a decent turntable for the first time in years and relaxed and enjoyed the music just like the good old days. Joe_coherent, I would be FASCINATED to hear more of your ideas and why you feel the way you do. Maybe you should relaunch Stereo Review Magazine or write for the Audio Critic. In defense of digital, I will say that SACD sounded pretty good to me on a short listen at Mark Levinson's new store in NYC, but I can't imagine that the format will make it and there seems to be about 5 titles available. I would be delighted to correspond directly with any of you on any topic or help with anything that I can. Long live audiophiles and best wishes to you all. Secret Geek

Hey David99, sorry about your mom, honestly, of course I didn't know she had passed away. It's just a saying you know... My sincere condolences, such is life. I hope you're doing well. With regards to the topic at hand, perhaps your pain is clouding your mind. You are being arrogant and foolish. I restate everything about vinyl I said before, and I have a lot of experience with vinyl. In most cases vynil sucks as a medium. Most analog rigs I have heard suck. It makes no sense to try to hear "beyond" the inherent imperfections. Why, if that were so why not tolerate the harsh horrendous CDs produced in the eighties. So, if you can't take it when someone has a different view I suggest you form a vinyl-lovers asylum where everyone thinks the same way you do and have your own totalitarian kingdom. I respect your opinion but you clearly don't respect mine.

hi david, glad that rogue 99 does it for ya - i guess the impedence mismatch was yust no good in my system. prolly a good thing, cuz i never wooda found my melos preamp! all the euphony of the rogue, w/the dynamics, detail & frequency response of good solid-state, mebbe even better? i've never heard dynamics like what i hear from this piece. melos sez ya don't even need an amp w/efficient speakers, i believe 'em. folks talk about the pros-n-cons of not using a preamp - how about the pros-n-cons of not using an amp?!? ;~) another ting i like about it that the rogue duzzn't have, is a tape-loop so i can run my dbx 3bx w/o having it in the loop when not needed, & balance controls... glad ya made out nice w/yer vinyl, but go easy on those digiphiles of the world - some guys yust can't be bothered, and digital sound ain't half-bad, if done-up right... :>) what really amazed me about vinyl, is i actually had a fairly decent set-up that i used for a long time: a heavily-modified c&j walker 'table w/a sumiko premiere ft-3 tonearm. well, i got the opportunity to pick up a used oracle w/grace tonearm, that i had upgraded to mk-v specs (except power-supply), & it was not too spendy - $1250 included a gnu box from oracle, shipped from canada. to be honest, i expected only a minor improvement, if any. & i really din't care - this was a case of wanting something only cuz it looks so cool! ;~) well, i couldn't believe how much better everything sounded - even the wife was astounded. and as it was, my old vinyl rig still kicked serious digital butt. now, w/origin-live mod power supply & tonearm, i'm in vinyl heaven. a rebuilt lyra cartridge on the way should really be sweet. ya, i, too, still crank *it's a beautiful day* - amazing, how good a condition it's still in, it's seen a lot of abuse over the years... ;~) ciao for now, dud

Hi Dud,how ewe been? The Pass is awesome but gets lots of help from the 99!! :) I agree with your "opinion" 100% When I was super cheap and flirting again with vinyl I picked up a $2.00 yardsale BSR turntable.It had a dirty,green Sure cartridge on it.I had no clue then about set up(not much on the BSR) and the cantilever was bent and loose.I straightened it out and superglued it "solid" At this same yard sale I picked up some mint viny for a dime each including "Its A Beautiful Day" (white bird one) I borrowed a junk preamp with a phono stage from a friend.This is no lie! Before I could sit down I heard sound I knew was different than what I was used to on my CD player.I stood at the preamp adjusting the volumn and heard a detail and sense of ease to the music I had never heard.Once sitting I was amazed that the sound stage depth and width had grown.I loved my junk table and the sound I was getting from "its a beautiful day"The tamboreen in "free Bird " sounded so real to me.I have often used that 10 cent LP for a sound test disc.The CD player I had at the time isnt the greatest but its not too bad either.Denon DCM 460?480 Its long gone now as is that $2.00 BSR,well actually I stripped the old gal down and use her now to spin LP's to treat with Groove Glide.I have never looked back.

imho, a $2k-$4k digital rig will be only marginally better (if at all) than a $500 digital rig, if run thru an excellent preamp. my <$3k analog rig (fono-stage included) will sound nicer than *any* digital rig at *any* price, imho. of course, i stress this is *my* opinion... doug

joe_in_coherent "Not everybody thinks the same way" Thanks for saying that! Misconceptions about vinyl vs CD is fueled by blow hards like you.Again,if you really stand by your silly remarks then,yes you are a clueless man.Are you going to end up being thrown out of audiogon like you have other sites? I have read you are very antagonistic and a real pain in the ass.Now speaking of "momma",she died 2 weeks ago.Just thought you might like to know.

David99: go home & cry to mamma ! Joe is criticizing my equipment on which you wasted all those $$$! C'mon, face it, not everybody thinks the same way. Respect other people's opinions or risk becoming a pariah like eber.

For what's it's worth, maybe not much to this list which spends more than I can on their equipment: I recently expanded into vinyl just to be able to hear rock music from the 60s and 70s, which isn't always available on cd. I got a used Thorens TD 166 Mk-II and added a new Grado ZF1+ cartridge. Pretty modest stuff. Using McIntosh C-28 or AVA SUper Pas III phono stage preamp, Meadowlark hotrot spkers. Have to say, when I'm able to find a mint LP, few scratches, and well-recorded (not all were despite my romanticized recollection), it's great fun. The sound is hard to distinguish from that my mcintosh MCD-7007 puts out, unless it's playing a really well-produced cd. Moreover, it is delightful, musical some would say, to listen to the vinyl. Get a bad LP, though, scratchy etc., and it can give you abit of a headache. All told, I'm pretty happy with the 250 bucks I spent to hear the music of my youth in a satisfying format.

Like hell!!! You just are full of crap, Joe. Please assume room temperature, before you explode (from being so full of crap). My vinyl front end costs less than my digital, and vinyl is easily better (and that's saying a lot, since my digital is at least as good as yours, if not better...for CD's only, anyway). YOU NEED TO GET A THORAZINE PRESCRIPTION, and continue the research I gave you, on what's behind a black hole's event horizon. Whatever that is, I'm sure it can be modeled digitally, so you'll be in heaven...the only way you could ever get to heaven, that is.

Is it joe_in_coherent? Sorry,I just have trouble sometimes with some of the ridiculous posts left here.

Joe,boy are you clueless!!! Climb back under your digital rock amd come out when you can open your ears. BTW,ever hear a decent analog front end??

Sorry but here is a real audiphile myth: that vinyl sounds better than digital. Perhaps if you spend $20K or more for your analog gear it does. Or if you have lousy equipment or CDs. But in the real world price level vinyl just sounds much worse than digital! You hear the cartridge "scratching" the records groove, most records are off center, record deteriorate rapidly and start making noises, turntables are a pain to maintain and calibrate, you have less bass, most motors do not supply constant velocity, etc. A reasonable 24/96 digital combo in the $2-4K range will blow away similarly priced analog gear.

I just bought a rega 25 w/600 arm and super elyse cartridge. I also bought an ARC ph-3 phono preamp (outstanding!). I chose the rega partly because it is considered 'set and forget' whereas some high end players need constant expert adjustment. On a good album, this thing walked all over my $3000 sony XA7 cd player. The music has considerably more presence and weight. I a/b compared simultaneously played albums, and the vinyl is quite a bit better. There is something to be said for cd's convenience. Also, the newer CD recordings are pretty good. I just ordered a record cleaner, and I expect that to improve my records as well. I figure it is better to get all my records clean now, so my turntable doesn't get contaminants on it. There is a lot of enjoyment in finding an original mono recording of Glen Gould $3.00, 'Lady in Satin'(GREAT RECORD!) $4, or 'The Trinity Session (in perfect condition!)' $4. I really like the fact that I can 'try' music for $3-4. It's great! How often do you have to clean the stylus, and what should you use ?

david99 is rite, the rega tables are excellent - especially for the money. *but*, i got an old oracle, updated to mk-v specs, for the same money as a new p-25. of course, i later spent some more on it for an origin-live modified rega tonearm & origin-live dc power-supply. :>) yule get more bang for yer buck buying a used 'table. good luck, doug

Case04 Grab a P-25! Best sound for the buck plus!! I went the Music Hall route,dont waste your money.They are good but the P-25 is great!You would have to spend 5 grand on digital to compete with the P-25.

Your exactly where i am at right now. I have just restarted an lp collection, and have purchased around 50 or so in the last 3 weeks.I still have not made up my mind on a TT. Though it appears to either be a vpi mk IV or rega 25 or michell gyro se, or drop down and save some money, music hall mmf-5. So i guess the way this sounds, i'm still not decided.I figured i can always get dvda and use all the speakers if i want to, but i remember 20 years ago i really liked the sound of lp's so i'm coming back. actually it's been about24 years.why wait! and vinyl costs, so get your supply built up, the prices can only go up, until more people start producing more lp's.