Vinyl heresy-overhang induced distortion is not that important

Dear @stringreen : Yes, everything is important and certainly azimuth is a critical alignment to SQ.  Not very easy for me to rank the importance of each single issue relative importance. To complicated to do that in an " universal " way because depends of each one audio experiences and knowledge levels about.

R.

Dear @lewm : """ This business is not as simple as detecting and eliminating a distortion that is a constant. """

Agree, everywhere every time, we just can’t avoid distortions in a home room/audio system.
That does or could not means that because the audio systems are " full " of distortions we don’t try to fix or put at minimum those distortions we can detected and that we have the knowledge to lower its levels even if we can’t detected as the OP where exist the tools to do it as is the cartridge/tonearm alignment that certainly is better to do it in the orthodox universal alignments that just leave it at random.

@uberwaltz : """ Sounds almost like a good case for the linear tracking arm ..."""

exist no single audio items that are perfect in audio and certainly LT tonearms are not, do you think that if the LT is the rigth way to go the AHEE where we all belongs did not choosed it instead the pivoted designs?. Everything has its own trade offs even that the users of it stay satisfied with.
You already read my posts in your thread and I don’t want that those " devoted " gentlemans come here to make again a " big deal " about  with subjective explanation but no facts comparisons.
Exist a dedicated thread for the ET LT tonearm why always that gentleman did/do a big deal when I or other audiophiles post some of the LT trade-offs? Makes no sense. Of course that every one is free to post anything in any thread.

R.

Dear @fsonicsmith : Using orthodox tonearm/cartridge alignment set ups every time the tonearm effective length change it changes too the off-set angle and P2S distance.

You said you changed at random your tonearm/cartridge efective length with out other changes but: " VTF, VTA, SRA, and azimuth. " and I understand that you can’t detected differences in the SQ and " defy " any one to pick out the differences.

Well, I did it (As I said several times I almost always make tests on a different opinion of mine to attest if I’m totally wrong or if I can achieve a better SQ with what other gentlemans explain. ) and compare it against Löfgren A orthodox alignment and in my system exist differences in between the four alignments where the common characteristics of the 3 at random overhang is a tonal unbalance where in the forward overhang high frequencies are more prominently and we can think better than the hf in the Löfgren alignment but after a few minutes we can aware that it’s only with more brigthness due to higher resonances/distortions. We have to remember that with cartridge at headshell forward position we are changing too the inertia moment ( effective mass and the tonearm cartridge resonance frequency value. ).. The back ward position is almost " unlistenable " in comparison and in both extremes the bass range is a little bloated in comparison with the Löfgren. There are other things that are more subttle in differences.

I did those tests using my self developed process that includes almost always the same parts on each same LPs tracks and I did it with that process because is the way I know what to look for on each of them The process is full tested in my system and other system and almost bullet proof.
As always I did it at near field seated position and at normal position too.

As you I re-set the other parameters but the off-set andgle and P2S.

Again I’m not questioning what you listened in your system and for me is very hard to think that we can’t detect SQ differences changing tonearm/cartridge effective length at random with out touch the other orthodx related parameters and that’s why I made those tests and confirm that at least Löfgren A alignment makes in my system a better " job ". So, I will stay with the orthodox kind of alignments.


R.

Dear @testpilot : Certainly you need the rigth tool to make the cartridge/tonearm alignment, no questions about.
What you don't need is to spend all that kind of money you posted to do it. You can buy from MINT LP a dedicated protractor for around 100.00 that's really accurated.

The issue in this thread is that as @lewm pointed out the OP posted something that's a wrong opinion ( I respect his opinion but that's all. ) because I think he does not understand why Mr. Löfgren created the tonearm/alignments calculations. In the other side the OP can't be aware because he said does not listen improvements, it's clear that he do not know what to look for with and with out Löfgren alignments calculations set up.

What the OP was doing is to " live "/return to 1937 year when Löfgren not developed yet his calculations about that he did it in 1938.

So if the OP is happy living in 1937 no problem about, he is satisfied with but do it your self a favor and make the rigth thing with the tonearm/cartridge alignment. Don't let at random as the OP.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @fsonicsmith : You can ignore what you want it that's  your privilege but your thread says you are wrong no maters what.

The fact that you can't be aware ( for whatever reasons. ) of the real and true differences in an accurated cartridge/tonearm alignment against one at random speaks for it self and can't say in any way you are rigth.

I respect what you like it and respect you as a human been but at analog/audio/MUSIC levels you are way wrong. Period.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @fsonicsmith : I can't argue against what you are " listening " in your home room/system.

I can comment some issues about your thread and other gentlemans posts:


"""  I submit that any differences in distortion due to sub-optimum arcs and deviations from the two null points and where they are located (those peaks in distortion) are masked several times over by distortion imposed by my tubed gear..... """

Exist several reasons why in an audio system we can't be aware of distortion levels on cartridge/tonearm alignments.

First is that distortion levels is changing at each single LP groove and the difference in between two concecutives grooves is really tiny for any one but a bat could hear it.

Our ears/brain/body can discern on distortion levels when the difference in between those distortion levels is a little higher than tiny tiny differences. We as human beens have limits about of what we can detect and each one of us due to our age and over the time we all have less sensitivity about, the loss of audibility each day goes fall down.

Other reason is the room/system resolution level and its distortion levels where tubes has  distortion levels and resolution truly inferior to solid state good designs: everything the same tubes is way inferior to solid state electronics from inside a  price range. 

You are full of tubes and agree with your statement where in other words you said can't be aware of the cartridge/alignment  distortions levels due that your electronics/speakers high distortion levels: agree with you. The resolution levels in your room/systems impedes to be aware about.
By coincidence lewm owns electronics that has tubes. Btw, I owned the RSA-1 tonearm and never like it and sold.

Other reason is that to be truly aware or detect differences in any kind of room/system evaluations/comparisons we need to have a well proved full self test proccess where at least needs that " always " make the evaluations using the same tracks with different LPs and not even that but to have identified at each LP track the part or parts we use for different kind of evaluation/comparison characteristics. With out that proccess and self training on it we just do not know exactly where we are " seated ".

Other reason of what lewm posted is that we are accustomed to some quality listening levels and when we listen something different  a priori we can say: wow !. But that wow is really a precise better quality sound?


Now, the orthodox cartridge/tonearm alignments what makes is to achieve " more or less " the distortion levels at minimum with and the underhung or what you experienced means almost nothing with out all those I pointed out.

One thing is what we like and other thing is to listen with distortion  ( any kind ) room/system at minimum. Exist a measurable difference in between, many times what we like it is really wrong but who cares: that's what we like it.

I'm in the other side: to stay truer to the recording and what helps to stays nearer to that target is to put room/system distortions at minimum and the cartridge/tonearm traditional alignments is a true way to walk in that road not what you experienced about.

But that is only my target and opinion and for you the validity is only what you like and your experiences, at the end is you who live with and you are satisfied. Good.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.