Vinyl and subwoofers

Cleeds
It’s almost always a setup problem, not an inherent problem with LP playback. It’s best remedied by correcting the setup, rather than by introducing a filter.

I agree with you but this has been my personal experience.

Recording venue noise (source lp)
Turntable rumble (setup issue)

So which is it? The money is on setup sure ......but here is the thing.

imo - anyone that is playing vinyl in a system that does justice to the bottom 2 octaves, and the gear sits on suspended wood floors...that in itself is a room setup issue /error. The person imo, will be doing all kinds of things - filters, isolation, damping, etc.... to overcome problems. This is just one example and does not refer to golferboy’s system...we have no room info?

At some point you need to start listening to the music again and a room sometimes just can not be changed. From friends in the past including myself at one point, I would say the majority, say every 3 / 5 people had systems on suspended floors.

Golferboy - it would probably help if you list 3-4 lps you are having issues with. Then the folks reading the thread can input their actual experiences.
Cheers

golferboy
Just read about the KAB rumble filter. I had no idea this problem of pumping woofers was so common. I am still shaking my head. Why didn’t the experts who designed the audiophile skyscraper put in a button for the rumble-filter floor in all of the elevators serving the analogue section of the building.

8^)


https://forum.audiogon.com/search/index?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=woofer+pumping+

316 search results on woofer pumping at AudioGon

I will hazard a guess that if your Thiel crossover was made when vinyl was prominent, and not a niche in this audio hobby, it would have made with a filtering system, or at least had that option to turn on, and prevent unwanted sub sonic frequencies. These sub sonic frequencies contribute to cone excursion and intermodulation distortion.

So, it does not have the option. I guess I can overlook the Thiel its 2016, but your ARC PH8 ? It is being used with these same Lp’s, same turntable, tonearm, cart designs that have not changed. This is not acceptable for ARC - imo. I assume it must have been a product budget issue for not including it.

Back in the day, 35 years ago...when I thought that putting a penny on a headshell might help get more music out of the grooves...I might have damaged more than a few records. If the sub was not there, the gravely sound would still be there, but easily overlooked without the sub. I’m going to recheck my turntable cartridge setup and look into a rumble filter, something I didn’t know existed.

I am actually surprised that this condition was not noticed with your Thiel 3.6. Curious what amp/s you are driving them with ?

Hi Golferboy

"The worst record for this is Boxer, by the National"

The band recorded Boxer with producer Peter Katis, with vocalist Matt Berninger stating, "We recorded a lot of it at home. Probably half and half of home recording and recording with Peter in the studio. We always kind of work that way, going in and out of studios and then back home. We have little home set-ups. .....

taken from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_(album)

Sounds like a good candidate for recording venue related to me. But I do not own the album.

All the album tracks here. have been listening to it :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHaln2drAdc&list=PLVKXUV0dJqqmO-Sac6-4Dl1myCMDGGTAx&index=2

************************

If you bring a woofer into a speaker repair shop to have it fixed, before they give it back to you they run a test signal through it.

from memory sending a 10 - 20 hz through a 12 inch woofer will make it oscillate violently and depending on design it will eventually stop above that.

re your Classe Amp

As a Canadian I have owned my share of Classe amps.

Going from memory again.

Re; The CA series I remember talking to Robert of Classe in Montreal. He told me their design was "more - and smaller" capacitors for quick energy transfer.  The drawback I found with CA - 300 and 400 was a rounded bass. It sounded good - tube like in the mids and higher. But the bass was bettered by both my Krell and modded Music Reference RM9 Tube Amp with KT-88 tubes. I also remember having to have the speakers closer to boundaries with the Classe. The speakers were able to moved back out with the other amps.

You have been through many phono stages. Did any previous pre/phono stages have a subsonic filter ?

Fun thread BTW.