Dear Donshoemaker: As a fact the 75 has better specs than the 80.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Lewm: I own the DK300 and is a little better than the one that comes with the 75 but IMHO these plinths are the weak link on the quality Denon performance.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Zargon: +++++ " Is this TT worth the time and effort? " +++++
yes, the reward is a beautiful one.
I own both units 80/75 and is very hard to say which one is more neutral due that both are similar and almost the same.
Differences are that the 80 has a pitch control that the 75 has not and that the mat are different: the one on the 80 seems more " dense ", anyway I don't use those mats.
Like in the SP-10 the Denon original plinths are not the best way to go so is here where you have to work to achieve a top quality performance.
I use two similar but different material build on these Denons: one is made from real marble ( a beautiful green one ) and the other from Onyx, I think that each plinth weight s around 60-70 lbs that as a fact function like " arm board " because the TTs " seats " on three ( small )polymer/plastic blend tip toe like a top the stone plinths and the plinths goes over AT pneumatic footers.
+++++ " I would be comparing it to my belt drive TERES. " +++++
you will be surprised how good are those Denons.
IMHO it is a good " move " to have two totally different TTs ( Teres/Denon ) .
Are at the same level that the Sp-10?, well IMHO they are aand are better looking " boys " due that the Denons were designed for people like you or me and not to radio-studio like the Technics ones where the " cosmetics " was not so important but even the DP-100 ( studo version ) is way better " looking " than the Technics MK2/3.
IMHO Denon has nothing to " envy " not only to Technics but to any other unit out there.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear T bone: No, the pitch control is on top in the right side of metal ring, as a fact are two knob/button: one to swith from automatic/manual and the button to change ( +,- ) the pitch.
The other difference between the 75/80 is that the 80 torque is bigger/strong.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Treehugga: I don't have any comparison measures on torque between the DP-80 and SP-10-MK2 but playing both it seems to me that the torque in the Tehnics is higher and this makes me sense because the SP-10MK2 was designed for studio/radio use where one of its needs was a very fast TT start and stop too.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Threehugga: +++++ " and make me wish I had discovered direct drive years ago before I wasted all that time & money on suspended belt driven decks. " +++++
one way or the other your experiences on BD designs were a learning ones.
Now, IMHO, as good as are the top DD TTs there are some very good examples on BD ones. Today and for what are my experiences on the TT subject I'm not totally convince that the DD systems ( If I recall I was/am one of the first persons in this forum that " supports " the DD systems. ) out there are better than the BD out there.
I think that both drive systems are and have similarities more than differences.
Both, are " roads " that can take " us " to the same performance target when everything the same ( I'm talking here on that very top-end TTs on both drive designs ).
A very " healthy " stage for many of us could be to own both drive systems.
I read on other threads that some Agoners change its very top end BD TTs in favor of a DD ones, IMHO this was a mistake and sooner or latter they will take in count that the BD ones are not lower performers than the DD ones ( everything the same ).
Unfortunately ( for them ) those people that already made the change IMHO never had the opportunity to heard both drive systems in exactly the same conditions where the only difference was the TT and nothing else.
I'm fortunate to have several TTs ( both drive systems ), tonearms, cartridges and in some cases I own two samples on each item ( tonearm/cartridge ).
This fact give me the opportunity to test and work on the subject ( a lot of fun ) and that's why ( in my system, everything the same ) I'm not convince on one drive system over the other one.
We have to remember that nothing is perfect and that always are trade-offs, certainly both drive TT systems have its own trade-offs.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
The real subject is that IMHO we can't take the TT drive system alone for to know which drive system is better, the subject is more complex than that and have an extremly close relationship with the tonearm/cartridge ( between other things ) behavior. |
Dear Lewm: I already heard some very good 301-401 samples ( not on my system ) " properly restored " and in a custom made plinth.
I can't say when I will have the opportunity to listen at home.
+++++ " in a proper plinth before any judgment. " +++++
IMHO till today ( not only on Garrad/Lenco ) no one ( including Monaco and DIYs. ) TT designer has the real/truer/scientist/proven ( vintage or modern ones ) answer of which is the " proper plinth " ( between other crucial things ) to each TT drive system.
IMHO almost all judgment on " this plinth is better than that " and judgment like this are only that " a simple opinion " but nothing that can tell us that that is the " proper plinth ".
If you, me or some one else analise how much in deep/scientist/proven research/results were made on TT designs ( any ) in the last 30 years we can find that the whole " production " is very poor for say the least and IMHO that's why almost any vintage/today TT design needs a lot of customer tweaks to perform in a better way.
If not, please tell me 3-4 different TTs ( at any price ) that does not needs any single tweak to perform at it best.
All this subject can/could tell me that the near " perfect " TT coming in a comercial way ( any drive design, it does not matters. ) is very far from today ( that's why you, me and many other person's efforts are trying with self alternatives: SP-10, DP-80, Garrad, Lenco and the like ), the very good news is that the best about is forth-coming, when? I can't say it.
I already say it on other threads: the advance on TT, cartridge and tonearm over the last 30 years is very tiny-small ( for say the least ) and I can't see ( yet ) that person/manufacturer/designer that want/can take the " flag " and makes the difference real differences about, I hope sooner or latter some one (s ) do it, in the mid-time we can go on trying to " invent " the best plinth or the best TT platform/footers or anything else: good fun btw!.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Lewm: The last time ( and the best ) I heard a Garrad 301/401 was at Louis place along the Triplanar/XV-1, as you can see a first rate analog rig and the speaker/electronics/room just " according " with.
How do you think that system " sounds "?, yes you are right: it sounds really good. Well, I heard ( other than in my system ) DD TT that performs really good ( at least same level. ) in different really good audio systems and I never heard a Garrad on my system. You ask " how do you rank....", well I can't.
In almost all those different ( top ones and with different cartridges and phono stages. ) systems either DD/BD/Idler performs very well.
Right now in my system I can't say for sure if I prefer DD over BD: overall I can't see an absolute winner yet!, a hard and complex " call " for say the least. It is ( at least for me ) very dificult to " aisle " the TT performance it self to rank a drive system per-se.
Today I'm a firm advocate ( if we can ) to have and enjoy all those TT drive systems.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Lewm: Yes, all of us are so lucky about!
regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear T bone: It happen that I own a DP-80 and DP-75 that seats in a 70-80lbs plinth of green marble and white onyx, beautiful stones.
Yes, like the granite mable/onyx " ring like a bell " if you " exited "/hit it but with a normal TT playing there is no problem.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear Lew: That Denon looks gorgeous, good job and good listening too.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
