The self delusion is that you think there shouldn't be difference.
The wire is the same but the terminations are differnt, and how did you terminate them?
You used bananas.
Had you said you used bare wire termination and noticed a difference I might have said there would be likely to be a marginal nod to the newer less tarnished run of wire.
I suggest you take the bananas off and listen again.
You may also hear an improvement and if it lasts longer than 3 hours then you know your not delusional and that the bananas did affect the sound of identical lengths of the same wire.
I would also suggest that you try a set of bananas from WBT such as the nextgen and have a listen to their effect and compare them to the sound of the bananas that you tried, but something tells me you won't bother with that. |
I used a couple of Townsend seismic sinks, BDR cones, Sympoisum roller blocks, butcher blocks,all of them are better than nothing.
But the biggest change was when I bought a Grand Prix Audio rack.
Pricey, but the best isolation device I've yet encountered. |
I just read about the granite.
I used to get severely criticized when I poopooed the effectiveness of a slab of graite under a component.
Granite can induce ringing not soak it up like wood or rubber can.
All components vibrate. some transformers have mechanically noise and can vibrate, hence the use of isolation washers.
Everything is in movement.You may not hear the sonic degrdation of one cap resonationg along with the music, but add up all the little separate parts used inour gear and things get into perspective that it's the sum of all these parts ringing and vibrating that causes a loss of clarity and detail.
Of course if you are multi tasker or background music listener, then this won't make a difference to you.
I find so much of the denial of anything but stock out of the box,quite fascinating.
The only way you can tell if a vibration control device works is to try one, then take it out of the system and listen again.
If one device didn't do it , try another.
If scientists gave up after the first failed experiment and made up their minds that nothing works, it's all snake oil, then we would be deprived of some very important and beneficial advancements. |
Everything vibrates,from transformers to caps to resistors.
Some you can hear with the ear, like transformers when the electricity goes a bit wonky, or sometimes just because no care or thought was taken when fastening them down without a damping material,hence metal to metal vibrations.
Then consider all the other more subtle vibrations(not to mention the speakers effect and the room)and when all is factored in and added up there is a whole lot of shakin goin on.
It maybe measureable, it may not, you may notice it, or as many here would suggest you may not.
The only time you notice that it was there is when something has been done and takes some away.
In other words, you notice it because of it's absence.
Much like improving the power to your gear, it's cumulative and you only notice the improvements when you go back and re-insert the gear before the upgrades and then re-insert the improved devices.
I've used several Target racks and some nice DIY wood units and lots of butcher blocks etc.
I think most folks would say that this usually has a noticeable effect on what is placed on top of it.
I am old enough to remember the fuss that Tip Toes created.
Lots of naysayers back then, perhaps the same folks as today.
Some things never change, some people never change, even as the world changes around them.
But as good as the shelf units I used, I wasn't prepared for the calming down effect that my first real audio rack had on my sound.
Some folks like granite,and I've been scoffed at before for saying this, but I wouldn't use it under anything unless the top had some sort of damping material.
It will reflect vibrations and ringing back into the gear and not absorb it, or drain it away.
It's great for damping out external vibes,but it rings unless you damp the surface.
Some gear benefit from having weights placed atop them, like cd players.Some gear have cheap flimsy cabinets of stamped sheet metal which will amplify and transmit vibrations.Some gear is housed in thick heavy billets of aluminum,and not just to up the price as fancy eye candy.
Perhaps this can be measured, but if not it's easy enough to try for yourself.Just be sure to protect surfaces from scratches when placing the weight on top of a component.
A few years ago Micheal Green was into clamping the components to his racks to prevent vibration and transmitting it form component to component.
That seems to have slipped under the radar.
Your ears will tell you if added mass or weight to a component improves the clarity, and that yes indeed that component was compromised because of vibrations from both it's surroundings and from the component itself.
If you notice you can make out the background vocalists more clearly and actually hear the words they are singing for the first time, you'll know you are on the right track.
You'll have all the proof you need |
Mr Rok2id, if vibration in resistors and caps is news to you, then there is no instrument that can prove it to you.
What sets a true believer apart from a non believer?
Well to be a believer ,you have to have some working knowledge or concept about how things are made and what external conditions can affect them.
And that means you have to try the stuff that folks are talking about.
People post to inform others about things that worked for them,NOT for any monetary gain, but just so that others can try and perhaps have a similar positive experience.
They aren't telling people to stick bare wire into a wall socket while standing in a pan of water.
However, the more expensive wire you use the better the experience.
I'll leave it to the measurers to prove me wrong. |
So the construction of the speaker cabinet has no effect on the sound?
Does the amount of bracing not matter? Or the type of materials used to make the cabinet not matter?There's no difference in vibration control between an inert aluminum cabinet and a presswood one?
It's all marketing, a myth ?
Maybe I don't get it,but I think the waveform would be altered by any of the above.
Also,a full range speaker on a suspended wood floor compared to the same speaker on a solid concrete floor will sound the same if the voltage stays the same?
There are some very sophisticated vibration control devices used in industry and in the lab that I guess aren't necessary then, all that's necessary is to make sure the waveform is kept stable?
Am I missing something?
Is the holy grail then voltage stabilization?
I would agree that the quality of the power to our gear needs as much help as it can get, and I am firmly in that camp.
But unless you work on vibration control,including the speakers, room, components and the wires,you won't know how good it can get. |
I guess I am chatting with folks who have never experimented with some of the different "feet" one can use on their gear.
Maybe it's just me, my ears or my gear, but I can hear the differences when I use the stock feet with the amp,and when I substitute BDR cones,and Roller blocks for the stock feet.
I can also notice the difference in sound when I use a Townsend Seismic sink or a butcher's block, or a glass shelf.
I also notice the improvement in sound when I weigh down my Audio Aero Capitole cd player.
There's two schools of thought in vibration control, you either absorb it or you transfer it away from the source component.
Both work well, and depending on how your system and room sound, you stick with one or the other.Or you mix it up.
For instance, if you have an overly warm sound,you can lighten it up somewhat with using less absorbing types of footers.
Now lets get back to loudspeakers again.
Most of them made in the last decade come with some kind of footers.
Mostly it's cheap spikes, meant to go thru the carpet.
On hardwood floors there are spike protectors, or flat footers which are non spiked.
Yes part of the answer is for stability,but it's also about vibration control.
I haven't seen very many loudspeakers that don't use footers and that are just plopped on the floor.
I once had a Sunfire subwoofer that danced across the room.
That thing needed spikes and something heavy to keep it in one place.Vibration control was not in that components design.
And even though louspeakers vibrate and send the music through the air to our ears, it certainly is a more pleasant experience when just the air and from the speakers is vibrating. Saddly that's not how it is.It gets worse because the speakers are also vibrating the floor. Second story listening rooms with suspended wooden, uncarpeted floors brings new meaning to following the bouncing ball.
And speaking of vibrations coming from the speakers thru the air,most turntables are either sprung or solidly well damped to control these air born vibrations and those from the floor.
So if the vibes are large enough in scale to affect your turntable I am sure they are doing the same thing with all your other components,which includes the wires to the speakers and the wires to the amps and the amps themselves.
Again worst case scenario, is a supended wooden , undamped resonant floor.
One huge vibrating membrane, like an avalanche of vibration sweeping over your system.
The same floor you've laid your speaker wires or interconnects or power cords on.
So they are also vibrating along.
And this shouldn't matter?
Maybe not to some folks it appears.
So with everything vibrating at different frequencies or even worse at the same frequencies, that's a lot of extraneous noise that is interfering with the music.
As I've stated I've used some pretty decent isolation devices and made my own, yet I wasn't prepared for how big an improvemnt my Grand Prix audio rack made.
But you don't have to spend that much to hear what vibration control devices can do.
You can get pretty good results on the cheap if you know what to use and where to use it.
You'll know you are on the right track when there's more clarity to the music.
There's also another way to skin the cat.
Isolate all your electronics in another room or in a soundproof closet,preferably on a floating floor.
I guess I was mistaken to think that in the waning days of 2011 that things like spikes and component footers would still be controversial.
I thought people had moved on to power cords. |
You'll experiemce time travel when you buy the better power cord, attach it to a better power amp, which is connected by better wires to a better speaker in a system that has been optimized with dedicated lines, power conditioning, room treatment and vibration control.
You'll be transported back to a smokey little jazz venue, circa 1960. Maybe I'll see you there? |
