Very Basic Tube/SS Pre-AMP/AMP Question

The problem with tube amps is that they don't generally perform as well at the frequency extremes as ss. As Karls notes this is because of the limiting factor that tubes have into low impedance loads presented by the loudspeakers. The transformer, if well designed will help but offers other distortions that can never be overcome and the signal is compromised in the flux. The result is fatter bass, slower sound and high frequency performance that comes up short most of the time. The debate revolves around the pluses and minuses of each approach. Which is the worst of two evils or which one would you rather live with long term?

Tubes run hot, have to be replaced often because they are typically biased high to extract better performance. Oh the hastle, who needs it? But tubes DO capture the presence and harmonics of the performance to a greater extent than ss. At least most would agree with that.

Now if one could have a tube amp that could provide what it does so very well, the presence and "thereness" AND control the bass and offer the speed of ss, now we're talking about the ideal amp. Does such an amp exist? With limitations of the speakers used, Output Transformer Less OTL amps offer this type of performance. They also run even hotter because it requires even more tubes to provide the current required into lower impedance loads. So they have THEIR limitations in application. Some will sacrifice the extra heat for the performance offered. It could even make you find a speaker that works with them so alluring is the sound.

The Berning zh270 otl has less limitations because it maintains control AND power into low impedance loads. Its approach is completely different than other OTL's but its performance is certainly on a par with its brethren. Plus it doesn't run the outputs anywhere near what other tube amps do, 100 watts at idle. This is certainly a lot less than most Class A ss amps.

The real issue is what do you really want, tubes done right without the inherent limitations in application vs. transistors which get almost everything right except the "you are there" emotional connection to the event? It is a relative question to where you are on the path to sonic bliss, but if you are an agnostic about what you are listening to, this post may be for you.

I've tried various combinations and for now have settled on a passive/buffered preamp with my Conrad-Johnson tube amp. There is no right or wrong answer. Common wisdom says to try a tube preamp with a ss amp. I have but I still haven't found the right match. For me, I get better results with the tube amp and passive preamp.

As for tube amps not having the frequency extension of their ss counter part, this can also be true of tube preamps. I've compared a few tube preamps against ss preamps and passive preamps. The tube preamps can sound sweet but can also roll off the frequency extremes, some more so than others. In my opinion, its more important to ask yourself what type of sound you are looking for. Even within the vast range of tube gear there's a significant difference in sound.

One generalization based on my own limited experience is that CJ gear seems to have a very nice midrange sweetness that I truly love. On the other hand, ARC is more neutral and extended but not much "magic" in the midrange. Its all a matter of personal preference.

As for tubes being high maintenance, I don't consider rebiasing the tubes every few months or replacing them every couple years a major issue.

Many thanks to everyone for the great advice. I particularly liked what Tubegroover said about presence or "thereness". I've been listening to mostly acoustic music these days and some of the older recordings are poorly produced. I am not after a sound that is overly analytical--In fact I think my ultimate desire is to conjure Miles and Bird right in my own livingroom. I think tubes will get me closer to the magic of a live acoustic performance. "Thereness" is a very good desciption, if I understand you correctly.

Also, thanks to T-bone for the great tips on local audio shops. I will be down in Akihabara this weekend! I would greatly appreciate any other recommendations you may have.

Satchmo - Abe Collins post is a good one and I agree with everything he says. What is important for you to find out if going the tube route is, what color do you want?

With a color spectrum from white=neutral/accurate to carmel=warm/luscious/dark. The question is, What flavor do you like the best? This is a personal matter and there is no right or wrong answer.

A warmer, darker sound will be more compatable with a wider variety of recordings but may not give the ultimate in accuracy or what term I like better is "realness". Accuracy and neutral can be misleading terms in describing reproduced audio relative to live music since none of it sounds real.

I personally feel that CJ and Cary components as examples, color the sound too much. This is stricly a preference thing. The very first tube component (other than an old Scott integrated from the college days 30 years ago) was a CJ pre-amp I owned from the mid eighties, the ultimate in luscious and romantic. It was my introductory component into "high end" audio. I loved it but to be honest I always preferred Audio Research more.

The point is that before deciding on which tube sound you like it would be good for you to listen to both approaches before making a decision. When you go to the dealer, hopefully he has tube gear and an example of each of the above varieties. From there you can decide which is to your taste. Take your time and don't be too hasty but above all, trust your ears and not someone else's opinion.

And to add to what Tubegroover has said, your other components like the speakers will play a big role in which brand of electronics will suit you best. For example, my Thiel CS 1.5 speakers are not lush or warm in the mids and this may be why I like the warmth from the CJ tube amp. If I had speakers that were already rich in the mids, I might choose a more neutral amp/preamp. To me, accurate or neutral equates to boring and sterile. I like a wee bit of midrange sweetness.

On a related note, I found that the tube CJ preamps combined with my CJ amp were too lush. So this is why I'm using the passive preamp. (But I also have a CJ PF-R solid-state preamp that I will be evaluating over the weekend. Just got it.)