Thanks for all the responses. After reading my comments again, I admit it does sound like a sales pitch (and I hate that kind of G@Bs hype!). I was just so taken in by this sub though; I guess the conditions were "right" and I got a little gushy. I don't take back anything said though; its just my own perceptions anyway.
Thanks, Audiofreakgeek for the insights on Earthquake and JL Audio subs. They have their rightful places for good reasons. I remember the naturalness and tonality of the JL was without peer. As I mentioned before, I look forward to reading about a direct comparison with the DD Plus series, if anyone can swing that.
Don't forget that the new DD Plus series is a different animal altogether than its predecessors; totally different magnet (much larger), cabinet, cone, electronics.
Lewhite: Two subs will beat one any day as Dave agrees. I'd get another one but the wife would roll it out to the curb with me stuck in it!
Dgarretson: It looked to be around 35 or 37 hz roll off but I'll have to double check.
Good points about servos vs non servos. JL may still be the harder hitting as Davehrab mentioned. When set to 200hz crossover, the DD15 Plus seems to impart a kind of organic weight to the individual instruments in the presentation and does it in a crispy, unclouded way. But then again, JL can do this as well, perhaps with even more finesse. I wish I could have one of each to compare.
Not trying to pitch anything here, just sharing the discovery of a new thing and asking for more insights from those more experienced. Thanks again for all your thoughts. |
Yes, REL is another amazing sub. Are they still made in the same factory or have they moved onto China? If so, I question the materials and quality.
An A/B comparison between the original DD and the DD Plus series would be very interesting. |
Podeschi, Your comment that "It creates much more dimension and atmosphere to the soundstage at all ranges" articulates perfectly what I was trying to say. Of course this effect depends on your gear, room, etc. But that aside, the DD Plus seems to dig out much more substance from each instrument including vocals when the crossover is turned way up. Its like you can hear much more of the saxaphone or whatever instruments are playing and the delivery is crisp, airy and natural, not muddy or cloudy. This may change slightly depending on the break in, but I'm enjoying it for now. |
BTW, I am NOT a retailer of anything and am not trying to pitch or sell anything. I'm just a regular dude with an ear for music. I've been fiddling with audio gear for about 22 years now and have heard the good, bad and the ugly. I'm rather new on Audiogon so forgive me if I wet myself and sound pitchy at times; its just enthusiasm.
Yea, 200 hz crossover setting sounds crazy but I wanted to see how it would integrate or enhance the lower midrange with music. Try this with your sub and see if it does what Podeschi described earlier.
Question: Does anyone have a preference on IC's for a subwoofer? I'm using custom silver plated; perhaps that lends to the detail.
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Lewhite: Of course, the best way to find out would be to do an A/B comparison between the two in your own listenng room. I have never done that; I just went for the DD Plus series from talking with David Weinhart, who gave me a lot of honest information about the performance of the two and let me decide, and I went in favor of the Plus series. We could have done an A/B there, but it was October and he hadn't gotten any shipments in yet and I decided not to wait.
I guess you could get a Plus series and do an A/B, playing just one at a time (and If you do, I'm sure many of us would appreciate the results to your ears). If you still like the original DD, then return the Plus and stay with the original!
BTW everyone, I teach in a public school for a living and have equipped my classroom with the Odyssey Extreme SE, Candela pre and Dynaudio 1.3 SE speakers and a Sunfire Signature EQ sub (all at my expense of course). The kids really appreciate it. It really kicks @$$ compared to the absolute crap the school provides for sound. When administrators inquire about it, I say it "enhances the learning environment by helping the kids develop an appreciation for music"! I hope I don't start getting the upgrade bug for the classroom though; there would be no end to that.
Cheers(: |
Yea, two is better than one anytime.
I've had my Velodyne DD15 Plus breaking in now for a month or so, sometimes not having it on. I've positioned it so it is sitting 12" off the floor, diagonal to the room, near a corner, about 3 feet away from the walls. It fires toward the left wall, not across the floor.
In this position, the sound is dispersed very evenly. The tone is so good on this sub, I like to keep the frequency response to 120 or so, just to hear more of what it can do. In my 22' X 19' listening room, I have to keep the volume from 2 to 5 out of 100 or it becomes overwhelming with most music. For movies, I turn it up to 6 or 7. Such overkill! I'm sure the DD12 would have been just fine. Oh well, its fun to have more energy than is needed.
I've tried three different Harbeth speakers and three different Dynaudio models (including the C1's) and due to its speed, the DD15 blends in extremely well with all of them.
If anyone is trying this sub, please share your thoughts!
Cheers, |
Fplanner2010,
If you now have one DD15 and one DD15 Plus series playing in the same room, why not go insane now and while you're at it, do an AB comparison for us.
I hope you enjoy the way the DD Plus digs out the airiness, organics and detail as has been stated in previous comments.
I've been running my DD15 Plus now since I originated this thread and it has become an inseparapable part of my system, no matter what kind of music I'm playing. I keep the volume at 2 to 4 (out of 150) and the high corssover at the highest setting (200 hz). I know that's extreme but in my room it works and the sub shows its true colors. For rock and blues, I turn the crossover down and the volume up to around 12.
Would like to hear from anyone else who has pulled the trigger on one of these DD Plus subs and let us know what you think 8-)) |
Nak8
Glad to hear those Velos are syncing well and digging up low level detail and in stereo. Wish I could be there to hear that! Would you mind mentioning the dimensions of the room? |
Nak8:
What advice did you get from Velodyne regarding your set up?
I wonder especially if setting a sub HIGHER will sound cleaner and more natural. It seems so with my room (which is not a concrete slab, but very thick wooden floors and steel "I" beams supporting, from the 1930's construction). Very solid.
I've got my sub sitting on thick foam and on a 12" high steel stand. It just seems to me the sub cone should be away from walls as much as possible and logically, the floor. Anyway, I get a very dispursed sound which blends very well with the other cones in the room. Perhaps I'll raise it higher, hee hee ha ha!
What a great thread this is, especially with johnk's contributions about that horn sub. Yes, it would probably crush my DD15 Plus if it became a stool for it! What a magnificent sub. I suppose that horn sub would need a large volume around it to breath(?)
Yes, on the low levels, live orchestras do move a lot of air. And yes, I'd rather hear live, unamplified instruments over any systems I have or have ever owned. But that very pure, clean and natural movement of air can be approached by the subs mentioned here, which makes it all very fun.
Thanks for everyone's contributions here. And now, I must go back and . . . listen again . . . Cheers! |
Irvrobinson
Thanks for the comments. I almost got the 18" but was told it was total overkill for my 26 X 21" vaulted room. Perhaps so. I keep the volume at 2 to 4 usually but that's with the crossover turned way up just so I can hear the sub bring out upper bass details (and it does this with such airiness; very fast sub). I knew this sub was special right when I turned it on, not even synced yet. In fact, I haven't had the luxury of having a profesional come out and set it up. But the thing does a pretty good job of dialing itself in through the auto eq. Enjoy! |
Podeschi,
Your comment, "I was shocked at how it provides not just a low end foundation but the big impact is it opens up the mids/highs/soundstage and space" it seems is what is being noticed by other owners of this sub as well. It seems to breath life into the soundstage, lifting mid / upper / lower bass detail in the instruments and vocals and presenting them in a much bigger venue than the listening room. It has a very natural, organic tone as well; very satisfying.
Two 10" vs one 15" hu? That would be a nice set up. I was told though, that the 15" is just as fast and more capable (better sounding) overall. True or not, I don't know. It would make a hellofa AB comparison! |
That this Velo can keep up with and enhance the openness of the Magnepan 3.7's and the other speakers mentioned in this thread says a lot about its velocity, cone / cabinet resonance and dynamics. I'm running my DD15+ with Dynaudio C1's right now and it keeps up with them. Or are the C1's trying to keep up with the Velo?) a very fast sub here.
I run the C1's by themselves and they are very pure and natural with very present base. Very deep, realistic soundstage. Then, I do the crazy thing of setting the crossover all the way up to 200hz on the Velo and setting the volume very low (2 to 6 for jazz and 6-12 for rock) and whaalaaa, the soundstage opens up and every aspect of the instruments / vocals / air is enhanced. Try this technique and let me know if its just me or does this happen in your set up as well.
Some ramblings: Now I want to try two DD12+'s in my room! Overkill? Certainly. Crazy? Never!!! I too believe 2 subs are better in a good listening room. My room has five walls, an open entry way, a strangely vaulted ceiling, very thick walls and floor and every component is suspended on foam layers. What does all that do? Something, I'm sure. This upgradeitis can become dilusional. Not knowing if there is something that sounds better is a fun thing and drives us. The biggest hurdle for me is telling my wife, "Yes dear, those have always been there" and getting away with it. Once I actually covered a new sub with a table cloth and told her it was a new side table, placing a lamp, etc on it. That worked for a couple of weeks. I don't want to talk about what happened next though. |
Yea, the lamp table design is the way to go, which could explain the wires coming out of the back. I might make a removable cover for the cone so if she lifts up the cloth she won't see anyting. |
If money were no object, I'd book myself with all the live events I possibly could and with good friends. Needless to say, a live event carries that energized air and sound experiences in their most organic and dynamic form which as we all know, you just have to be there, literally as our percussionist Johnnyb53 has so well indicated.
For the rest of us, its exciting that there are these super subs available which can come into our listening rooms and actually help recreate the air of a live event like the ones being mentioned.
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