Vandersteen Mod 5 vs Coincident Tech Total Eclipse

With all due respect, Mikes, you are not going about this acquisition in the correct manner.

I am always baffled by this type of thread. It is no reflection on you, but when someone puts up two very different products, each with very different requirements, and asks which one should he purchase, I do not feel that anyone in this forum will be able to provide you with the right answer. Compound that with the fact that you have not settled on the room or amplification yet. Recipe for unhappiness.

I do feel that the members here can offer a lot of insight in terms of how something sounds, how it mates to other equipment, or their own personal experience.

One of the most important factors in an audio system is the speaker to room interface. It can not be turned away from. No ifs, ands, or buts. Add in that speakers are so different, just like people's tastes, and I feel that the first thing we need to think about it leading you down the wrong path.

My advice is ultimately this. BUY YOUR HOUSE FIRST. Once you establish where the speakers will be, you will be able to have a much greater opportunity for success. It may not even be these two!

As you are dealing with two world class loudspeakers here, I would say that they will be the pillars of your system. In my opinion, the road to success it to first match your room and tastes to a loudspeaker. From the two you present here, I would consider this a lifetime purchase. That is, if you pick the right one for you, and the room, which should be large and undersquare.

One more thing. NEVER buy a speaker without a thorough audition. That is, unless you just walked into a deal that will not be offered again - i.e. they are rare to the point of almost never coming up for sale, or if you had to sell them, you would make money.

I love both Coincident and Vandersteen speakers. But, they are voiced so different. It's the classic boxer vs. puncher debate. The right one in one sytem will be the wrong one in another.

The Total Eclipse are much more fast, revealing, and light on their feet. The treble is more fast, and at the same time, more airy and natural. The bass goes really deep, but doesn't have 'crack the door jamb' punch. The Vandersteen 5 is more full bodied, authoritative, and harmonically rich. These descriptions are most applicable in the bass and midrange. They will both play classical, jazz, rock, and evn hip - hop(if you needed to) music in a fine manner. They just sound different. Very different. I would say the Total Eclipse is more clear, while the Vandersteen 5 is more romantic. Which sound do you prefer? Only you can answer this question.

Both match well to equipment which is opposite to their nature. And, do not match well, at all, to upstream equipment that is similar to them. In other words, match the Total Eclipse to rich sounding equipment, match the Vandersteen to neutral sounding equipment. If you see either of these speakers in a good sounding set - up, you will notice this. Look upstream.

Amplification cannot be ignored in this debate. Can not. Along with the room, and your tastes, it will be a determining factor in whether you keep these loudspeakers, or not. Please do not paint yourself in the corner of deciding whether you need to find new speakers, or new amplification after this purchase. If you have an amp with a generous amount of power, the Vandersteen is a superior match. The Vandersteen needs a large monoblock push/pull tube amp with superior transformers and at least 4 output tubes per channel, or solid state. The Model 5 will not work well with anything less. With an average to lower powered tube amp of less than 8 output tubes, SET, or OTL amplifier, you had better opt for the Coincident. Driving the Total Eclipse with high power or solid state just does not work well. Especially, solid state, due to the high impedence of the speaker - it's 14 ohms.

So, in a nutshell. Figure out where they will be, what you will drive them with, and whether you like vanilla or chocolate. Then, you will ensure that you will buy the right speakers.

GOOD LUCK!

Scott, Natalie is correct. I own the Coincident Digital Master, with Troubass subwoofers.

Think of them as Israel's take on the Wilson WATT/Puppies. Truncated, pyramidal, two way time aligned satellites, using a good sized subwoofer as its stand. A simple, first order crossover makes them very easy to drive. A lot of people who know this hobby much better than I do tell me that they consider this perhaps Coincident's best effort, ever. As I have never lived with any other of his models, I am not sure. But, I do know I will probably never get rid of them. Israel has told me a few times that I would be a fool if I even think of parting with them.

Compared to the newer Coincident speakers, I would say there are some advantages and disadvantages. While they are tube friendly(including SET), they are less so than the 14 ohm impedence, 94+ db/2.83 V sensitive products he has been putting out. On the plus side, they sound richer, and more musical than the other Coincidents I have spent time with. I find the older Coincident line much more interesting, especially in terms of design, than the newer stuff. But, this is a business, I understand. The one thing I need to do is upgrade to the Scan Speak Revelator one day, it is a true upgrade from where I am.

By the way, the little brother of the Digital Master, the Troubador, is sometimes up for sale here on Audiogon. I assure you, you can buy a better speaker, but for the usual $650 I see them for, I don't think you can beat them. They are like a shorter(1/2 as tall) version of my satellite, but they feature a nifty tweeter coincident(ever wonder where the name came from???) with the midrange. Yes, you should mate them with the Troubass subwoofers if you can find any for sale(now they are hard to find) to make a full range loudspeaker system. The Troubass serve as stands for the Troubador. The Troubador may not be the most refined speaker in the world, but a winner nonetheless.

Currently, I am driving the Coincidents with Atma Sphere M60 monoblocks. And, as Fatparrot stated so much better than I will be able to, this match is as good as I have ever encountered.

Now that Fatparrot let us in on Ralph being a big fan of Coincident, and Natalie has told me in the past that Coincident mates splendidly with OTL, it seems as if they should show together. Atma Sphere will certainly benefit from getting away from the horns they normally show with, and Coincident will be at its pinnacle. Incidentally, I must offer my public thanks to Natalie for steering me in the direction of Atma Sphere to go with the Coincidents. Match made in heaven. I am forever thankful!

Fatparrot, thank you for the kind words. I think the Total Eclipse is a big step up over the Super Eclipse. I have reservations about running the metal coned midrange drivers into the treble regions. They are prone to a nasty ringing. But yes, I do think that Coincident speakers across the product line share in sonic signature.

On the Vandersteen side, I have had 1s, 2s, and 3s in my system. And, I have always enjoyed the 4. That is why I am such a big Vandersteen fan. As it stands, I have a local person who has a pair of 4s he wants to part with for an absolutely incredible price. But, I have bought enough audio this year, and I am not sure if I would be allowed to put them in the family room. They are big, Big, BIG!

I would say that at the 2001 Stereophile NYC HiFi Show, the Vandersteen 5 were paired with Cary V12 monoblocks. Please do not think I am exaggerating when I say the sound was positively stunning. The match with the big room and the Carys was perfect. And, so was the sound. It was the best I have ever heard at a show.

I think John_1 hit the nail on the head when he described the Vandersteen 5. Kudos! If you have the right room, taste, and electronics, you may find heaven. Otherwise, you may have dropped a lot of money on something that will not work out.

Tubegroover is proof that some people on this site REALLY know what they are talking about. I think you summed up high end audio in a most succinct manner.

I think sometimes we piddle around, and look too far into the minutiae, but anyone who doesn't talk about rooms, speakers, and tastes, has completely bypassed the fundamentals.

I guess the thing I really wanted to say through all of my blabber is that taste is a big, big thing. I did try to go out of my way to say how different the Coincident Total Eclipse and Vandersteen 5s are, but what I really should have said is that if you know how each of them sound(via a THOROUGH audition), where you will place them, and your amplification, you really don't need to come to anyone here to know which speaker will be the right one.

Me, I would never put down $7500+ on anything audio without having the utmost confidence in what I was buying.

I am not sure why we don't look at this whole game in much simpler terms. It's a lot like automobiles. If someone is asking whether they should buy the pickup or the sports car, I think you need to spend more time learning about their own needs first. Let's say I have settled on a sports sedan, and have narrowed it down to the Audi A4, BMW 3 series, or Jaguar X Type, it would be expected of me to give each a thorough test drive. Otherwise, people would see me as a fool. It would quickly be seen that the BMW would take the most effort to drive, be the most athletic, most spartan, and most harsh. The Jag would be at the other end of the spectrum. Soft, luxurious, more plush, and less tenacious on the road. The Audi would fall somewhere in the middle. Since they are all more or less the same price, the test drive would lead me to the one I ultimately purchase. It wouldn't take much thought. The feel would address all questions for me.

Scott, I agree 100%!

But, then look at who has gotten involved in this thread. When you bring in the heavy hitters like Tubegroover, Natalie, John_1, Fatparrot, and yourself, it just seems like old times. We are definitely getting into the class of Audiogon here, and I feel priveleged to be a part of it.
No, the discussion on the site over the past year plus has not reached the level it did previously, but this thread proves what is possible.

I hope that the trend I am starting to perceive in the site's discussion is actual. If so, Audiogon will be taking a big turn upward