Vandersteen 5 vs Model 2c/2wq Combo

Scott and I both like to post on these Vandersteeen questions. Scott always makes good points and knows his stuff.We have similar tastes. I have a different view on the answer to this question though. Scott is right that the 2Ce is not a 5. The thing that strikes me here is that if your budget is not in line with the 5 don't sweat the difference. A pair of 2Ce's will sound better with(you don't mention what you plan to run them with)more budget minded front end gear than the more revealing/demanding 5 or even the 3's that Scott recomends.I would rather listen to 2's with a great CD player than 5's with a lesser source. Even a pair of vandersteen 1C's and spending a bit more of that budget on the rest of your stuff(the best source you can afford)would sound better than 5's run by a less than great budget solid state integrated amp and decent but not world class CD player. Even vandersteen 1c's by themselves or with a 2Wq and even better yet two 2Wq's as Scott mentioned can be great with better fornt end stuff.

Scott makes a good point about the bass EQ for the 5, but you need to realize that to get the most from the 5 you need to place it where the mid range and highs sound best, this isn't always the best spot in your room for bass. That is why the 5's have the EQ feature, and the set up of that alone is a bit more complex. By seperating the low bass from the mids and highs using the seperate subs you get some flexability of placement that other full range speakers don't usually have. The 2Wq can be placed where it workes best,(in my case it is in the corner of the room) or where it can fit in less than ideal conditions and still not compromise the mids highs. This gives you more options and the main speakers can go where they need to go to sound their best. I can have my main speakers closer to the back wall than I would be able to without the woofer and not get boom(the low bass is filtered out of my main speakers).

As for the sound quality of the 2Ce, again I will say it isn't a 5 or a 3A Sig, but I have yet to run up against it's limits or in other words their ability to show the improvements of parts of the system up stream from them. What I am saying is that the rest of my system improves, so does the sound that comes from the 2's. As I refine everything from amps and CD players to power cords to AC outlets, to isolation devices, the 2's are there letting me hear the improvements very clearly. My point is, as I have said before in other posts, to quote myself,"speakers IS dumb", they just reproduce what you feed them. Send a great speaker an OK so-so signal and you will get an OK so-so sound back. Now take a quite good speaker and now feed it with a great signal and you can get very good sound back. By the way, the 5 will not be louder than 2Ce' with 2Wq's. The sensitivity is the same for both.

The whole point of my post is get it right from the source and work from that point. Anything you loose from the start is lost for good. Spend less on the speakers to start with and buy the best CD palyer(or TT) you can get your hands on and buy the Vandersteen that fits into that budget. Great speakers dont=a great system. Great speakers finish a great system.

OK, Judit, roll back the clock about 30 years when I was in High School. Before this I had listened to my brothers system, but this was my first and I remember planning it out for MONTHS; Pioneer PL-71, it was their top of the line($300)direct drive turntable(it had a nice arm on it)with some Audio Technica(bright orange stylus) cartridge that I can't remember the model. A Marantz 1060, 30 watt per channel integrated amp driving EPI 100's(two way's with inverted dome tweeters and 8" woofers if I remember right). there you have it!

Garfish and John1 are saying what I am in a diffderent way. The very best state of the art stuff in the wrong room with poor set up won't sound like it should.

I have a friend who has much more expensive stuff than mine in the wrong room for it. He has $13000 speakers and 450 watt mono tube amps in a nice, but overly live room(the speakers are big stats to boot). Mine kills it! Not to say he can't someday get it to work, but set up and careful planning are everything.

Another friend of mine got a pair of 3A sigs at a bargain basement price and they were mint. It was the score of a lifetime in my opinion! He then assembled a system of similar components to mine(same CD player, Mono versions of the amp I had at the time, and a pre amp from the same manufacturer) including a 2Wq. He needed to move it out into a bigger room that he had never tried his HiFi in before. Again my system killed it. It sounded nice, but should have been more than just nice! It may have been the room or some other factor that I am still trying to form a theory about. I would have loved to bring the 3's here to see what they did but I never got the chance. He got discouraged too fast and took the opportunity to turn about a $500 profit on the speakers after only a few weeks.It was my only time to listen to the 3A Sigs. This tells me that proper set up and taking the time to working out bugs trumps spending more money on better speakers until your system is ready for them. Hell yes I want 3A Sigs and another woofer! I think the rest of my system, room and set up are up to the task.

I have read about people who have web sites where they pan handle from strangers to pay off huge credit card bills or huge Hospital bills and people send them cash. Ok now is your chance to be a good citizen! Send your cash donations(no checks please!) to "The Maxgain Speaker Fund". The web site isn't up and running yet so for now just send me an e-mail and I will tell you where to send that bushel of $20's and $50's and $100's!

No one seems to like the Vandersteen 1c around here? If you have a budget crunch they are one of the best values in speakers under the price of 2's and sell for real bargain prices here on Agon. There is a pair of 1b's on now for $325, and 1c's can be had for a bit more. 1B's or 1C's wont take up any more floor space than a monitor on a stand and you dont need to spend lots of cash on realy good stands. Think of them as monitor speakers with the stands built in and deeper bass than tiny monitors. These may even be overkill in a 12X12 room. Check out the Sound Dynamics RTS-3 at Audio Advisor. I have several friends with a pair of these and they are amazing for about $200 a pair right now! Seriously these sound great. Don't let the price put you off. HP from The Absolute Sound loved these things and so do I. I have a friend who sold his Silverline Panatellas and went back to listening to these.(he did like the Silverlines and am not sure whay he did it, same guy who sold his 3A sigs after a few weeks)

Ok guys Chaskelljr2001, brings up some interesting questions.My direct experience with the 3's is limited. They were not introduced until after I got out of the dealership where I sold Vandersteen(I do know a bit about the Model 4 first hand though, talk about a bitch to drive!). I have never thought of the 2C in any version to be difficult to drive as far as load or any other aspect. The Model 3 is more efficent on paper by 1db. Why wouldnt the same amp that can drive 2's drive 3's as well? I don't see why not. Anyone?

By all means I think that most people give up on their speakers before they know what they are capable of. Hell, I don't think "Dick" himself knows what a 2Ce/2Wq combo can sound like, as well as I do. They get better every time I tweek what's in front of them! I think I have gone beyond what most Model 2 owners have before they moved up to another model in the line. I wonder if he(Dick) has cryo treated Hubbell's in his listening lab? I do!(if you don't have, get some!) I also have custom made X-2 sub woofer x-over filter clones that blow his off the face of the earth! These refinements along with my slow and careful selection of gear has shown me that there is more performance potential in many speakers than most audiophiles understand.