Using PA Speakers In A Home "Audiophile" Application!

@ellajeanelle wrote:

... When you want "raw power" and high sound pressure levels there is no substitute, but if you want refinement, hi fi speakers are the way to go. You have to decide what you are after. Just my humble opinion...

In my humble opinion, one doesn’t necessarily have to exclude the other. PA speakers have many good offerings for domestic use - some options have already been mentioned.

More to the point though, much if not most of the bias against PA/pro speakers for home use comes from prejudice and "listening" with the eyes. If there’s any real experience to speak of it’s from concerts blasting away with serious SPL’s and gear closer to its limits than not, and how’s that an indication for use in a home setting? Try hanging up a bunch of Wilson’s or other hifi speakers in large clusters, just for sports, and have them perform at concerts at the end of their ropes. There’d be mostly smoke, I might add, other than the fact it wouldn’t sound anything like it would at home. Alright, as an outset either segment of speakers are built for their specific purpose, but one of them will do better in both scenarios, and it isn’t the hifi speakers.

Seriously, how many audiophiles have tried speakers from the pro segment in the home setups, and who even cares to? Ramble on this, ramble on that. Moreover, PA is just one segment of the pro sector; there are pro cinema speakers as well, that is to say large high efficiency speakers that can take loads of power, and they’re often better suited for home audio reproduction.

I’m not claiming hifi and pro segment speakers sound the same in a home setting, but where they differ it’s no necessarily at a disadvantage for pro speakers. For starters, blanket statements about how pro speakers can’t sound refined, is bollocks. Claims about their lack of imaging capabilities aren’t well founded either, I find. That being said it’s important to know all pro segment speakers aren’t the same, and while some of them may be less suited for home environments from a refinement and imaging point-of-view, others are downright great.

For those who have gone to great lengths finding and optimizing their particular hifi speakers in their homes, well-implemented pro segment speakers mayn’t be their cup of tea, certainly not at first (and once preconceptions may have worn off). I’m not saying that implying all such people would find pro speakers to sound bad by comparison, but merely that there would be differences in the presentation that might trigger them into believing that initially. Preferences and all, and not least habitual exposition.

Bear in mind that one can optimize pro speakers in one’s home as well; it’s not exclusive to hifi speakers. And whereas most hifi speakers are passively configured, many pro speakers are configured actively, outboardly as well, and the latter in particular offers some distinct advantages over passive speakers optimizing them into their specific acoustic environment even more thoroughly.

Why would pro speakers sound different to hifi dittos? Look at the physics and design of things, and then compare them to the segment of hifi speakers that are high efficiency and capable of fairly high power handling as well. As such some hifi speakers could also be labeled pro-ish segment, but they’re just neatly wrapped in veneers or lacquer, not to mention oftentimes being very expensive. By comparison pro speakers intended for the pro sector are typically larger and more rugged looking, but more importantly they’re designed to actually meet a design goal and application from a basis of raw functionality, whereas hifi iterations of this segment of speakers are typically compromised by size limitations to cater to domestic demands, with all that entails as to their functionality.

The question could be raised whether the design goals for a pro application make sense for use in a home setting, but to me the most important takeaway is whether there are any obvious impediments to stand in the way for proper integration here. Designing a product more strictly from the basis of functionality to me is both meaningful and beneficial in a home setting, not to mention honest and "what you see is what you get." Lastly and not least: if it sounds great, it sounds great - irrespective of whatever the hell. 

@deep_333 wrote:

Could you suggest an "audiophile grade" active crossover?

Like poster @kckrs suggested, the Xilica XP-series is very good - I use the XP-3060 model myself. There’s also the Danville Signal dspNexux 2/8, which has received some positive feedback. More on the Danville at this Audiogon thread.

DEQX seems to be at the top of DSP/DAC units, albeit more pricey. Maybe poster @mijostyn can elaborate more on them.

@atmasphere wrote:

I’ve run into breakups in older designs (like Altec, with their aluminum diaphragms) and also in newer designs, like the JBL speakers I use for my keyboard setup. If I get over a certain volume, the speaker doesn’t handle it that well (gets harsh) so it does seem like I’m setting off a breakup in the horn.

My speakers at home use beryllium diaphragms; the first breakup is at 35kHz.

That’s not much of a basis for qualified comparison here. Which JBL’s are those, and how are they (or the Altec’s) representative of a whole segment of speakers?

Look, I believe we’ve been here before, but there’s nothing to support the narrative inkling towards modern pro drivers, or even a range of older dittos, being in particular marred by breakup modes. There’s tons of great pro drivers and horns out there with solid R&D behind them, and they don’t suddenly turn harsh when pushed - believe me. If they did they’d be out of business. Of course you could find cheaper "weaklings" among them with sub optimum horn profiles, flimsy material choice, less than stellar drivers and overall execution, and they would be the easy and even convenient target for field coil-, beryllium diaphragm-fitted and lovely hardwood housed speakers like your no doubt great Classic Audio Loudspeakers to make a case against them.

Instead choose someone your own size, as they say; it would be most interesting to put together an all-out combination of partly DIY, off the shelf quality pro driver-fitted horn-based speaker setup at a likely much cheaper price, actively configured with horn subs and all, and then have a showdown for a more fair comparison. I’m not trying to belittle speakers as the ones you own, on the contrary, but if we want to make this a fair fight then let’s have the other party pull out their big guns as well :)

@atmasphere wrote:

My concern would be breakups in the drivers, which cause distortion and harshness. PA stuff mostly does not care about that sort of thing since sound pressure is the main goal. But its a big deal with home audio speakers, where such things can shoot the product down.

I don't know the specific product referred to by poster @deep_333, but as a claim aimed at pro drivers in general your statement is incorrect. If there are breakup modes prevalent here it's most likely due to a driver section being used outside it's recommended frequency range, and not because the drivers are more prone to breakups as such than "home audio" variants or very expensive, boutique equivalents - unless we're speaking beryllium diaphragms in the MF/HF drivers, which extend more cleanly into the upper octaves for a given diaphragm diameter. Motorforce is a factor as well, but hardly applicable as a significant contributor in this context.

Moreover, as a design intended for active configuration there are obvious advantages using steeper filter slopes, and thus avoid severe driver overlapping as you would with passive designs. This not least is a factor with horn-loading. Modern pro drivers (and even ones decades old) are extremely well designed, and used within their design parameters - not least actively - will yield no effective problems with breakup modes. 

@deep_333 wrote:

Nevertheless, since this is 106 db sensitive/possibly running at fractions of a watt for home listening levels...what type of "audiophile grade" home audio amplifier might you recommend?

I can say for certain pictured PA speakers above aren't 106dB sensitive overall. The direct radiating woofers are in the 96-99dB sensitivity range, although the horns above are +100dB sensitive. If they were passively configured then the system sensitivity would be dictated by the least efficient driver section (with the horns above dialed down to match LF), which are the woofers here. Since these are intended for active config. a staggered sensitivity rating for each drivers section should be stated.

With regard to amp matching, Ralph is the meastro here in giving advice. Noise can be an issue though with +100dB sensitive drivers coupled directly to amps without any passive filters in between, which can be partly alleviated with higher impedance drivers of 16 ohms, or simply a fitting resistor size in series over the MF/HF section.