user poll on seperates vs integrated

vonhelmholtz: i post here when i have a question about something, not sure why not posting all the time is an issue for you.

i asked the question because i'm curious to know if there's a prevailing opinion on whether, when cost is equalized, people think you get better results for the money out of less expensive separates or more expensive integrated because it might influence what direction i go in the future.  i'm not on the verge or a purchase, but down the line, as i look at future upgrades, this is the sort of fork in the road that determines the future of a system.  it's also just interesting to me.

russ69: thanks for the reply, wondering what specifically about speaker choice would make you lean towards either separates or integrated?  for reference, i use focal kanta 3 speakers.

grislybutter: that's an interesting sort of rule of thumb, do you recall who gave you the advice?

my budget would probably walk that line, so i guess that doesn't help that much.

the obvious future plan i guess would be to build off of what i have, for example, i have a parasound phono amp, i could eventually save up and get the matching pre and power amp or something like that, but as i was reading reviews, looking at my options, just generally getting a lay of the land as far as options in that price range, it occurred to me that for the same price as the couple of separates, i could get an integrated from somebody perhaps a little more exotic that i wouldn't otherwise have had on my list of options, and it got me curious as to whether people thought one option was definitively superior to the other or if it was more contentious.

i appreciate everyone weighing in with any personal experience they might have had.

willywonka: thanks for the reply.

regarding synergy vs flexibility, do you think there are real benefits of using an entire system from a single company, since the units were likely all designed with each other in mind, as opposed to picking and choosing a preamp from one place, a power amp from another, etc? 

i ask because i know that nordost, for example, explicitly states that their products positive qualities are enhanced by being used as a complete set, sort of a "more than the sum of its parts" thing, which i think they refer to as a "loom"? 

I don't know how much of that is marketing to get you to buy their gear vs verifiably accurate, and if the same goes for other components.

nonoise: that technics unit you mentioned is beautiful, i'd definitely take a look at that one.

yeah echoing your statement, i hear a lot lately about how far integrated amps have come.  the thing is that the audio press essentially only print positive reviews, so it's hard to ever tell what is or isn't the way to go. 

when i was purely considering separates, i was looking at parasound, bel canto, primaluna, rogue, as those had separates in my budget that were pretty well-reviewed, but those are all kind of mid-budget mainstays and i was curious what else was out there.  for the same money if i was looking at integrated units, particularly if i start looking at open box deals, dealer trade-ins etc, i could be looking at things like esoteric, or BAT, whose separates are way out of my budget so i hadn't otherwise considered them.

russ69: thanks, i'll certainly look into Cary.  at the moment i'm running the Parasound phono into the Rogue Cronus Magum 3 integrated.  i wouldn't necessarily say i have complaints, but down the road if i'm looking to step up, i was just curious what direction made the most sense.  I got a terrific deal on the kantas and am gradually upgrading the rest of the system to catch up with them.

seems like for the most part, people feel that while integrated amps have improved considerably in recent years, separates remain the better overall solution for reasons like being able to upgrade single elements in the future without having to swap out the whole thing, but at the cost of more cabling to purchase and more space needed for all the boxes.

i didn't really come in thinking there was a definite answer, i just wanted gauge if there was a general feeling one way or the other and seems that "it depends" is the answer, due to too many variable to rule out.  the truth is i'm sure i'll enjoy whatever i end up doing down the line, as any sort of upgrade will still sound like an upgrade, and i'll never know what i'm missing in the gear i didn't go with.  i appreciate everyone weighing in with their thoughts and experience though.  and obviosly with specifics they've tried and did or did not care for.  there are so many options it would be impossible to try all or even very many of them.

when i was shopping for speakers a few years back i had to just read and read and read and narrow it down to 4 or 5 options that i could check out locally, and rule out anything that wasn't available locally, so i'll never know if i might have liked one of those better that didn't have a local dealer, and not knowing is probably for the best, since i love what i ended up with.  i just prefer to come to a place like this to solicit info vs a shop who is trying to sell me on what they carry, or a magazine that just loves everything they write about.

ha, i stepped away for an hour and the tide of opinion has turned completely the other direction in favor of integrated amps!  i love it.  honestly i know there's no right answer, its nice to hear what everyone's personal experience has been though.

the only thing i currently have that is separate from the amp is the parasound jc3+ phono which i picked up recently as a dealer open box deal.  i can say that there has been an immediate and distinct improvement vs simply using the onboard phono, much more detailed and more of a feeling of 3-dimentionality, players occupying distinct locations vs the music all sort of compressed together if that makes sense. 

it was the experience of adding this separate component to the system that got me thinking about this question in the first place, wondering if i wouldn't find a similar improvement in splitting up the pre and power amp the way i did with adding the external phono.

oldrooney: thanks for the thoughtful reply, there is so much to consider.  among other things, the room i'm in now is not likely the room i'll be in forever, as it's a rental. 

i was initially in the market for something more in the range of the focal 2, since that's where my budget was at, but a dealer had the 3s on hand that he'd taken as a trade-in and sold them to me for less than the price of the 2s, i couldn't pass that deal up, even if i knew it was something i'd need to grow into, both in terms of system and space for it to occupy, over the course of some years, i considered it more of a long term investment.

whenever possible, i prefer to save a little more and stretch to something that is maybe a little farther up than i was initially, looking, and then just keep and enjoy it for a long time, vs get something more entry level and keep feeling like i want to upgrade it every year or two. 

a long way of saying that at the moment, the speakers are probably overkill for the room, but i move around often enough, they might be perfect in the next one.  i don't listen at extreme volumes, not trying to terrorize the neighbors, nor is the music i'm playing terribly bass-forward, mostly rock, pop, folk and some r&b/soul.  the rogue tube amp i have now offers plenty of power for them, at 91db sensitivity, i rarely ever get past 50% on the volume dial and that's in triode mode which i believe halves the output. 

i enjoy tubes and would be happy to stay that course, although i don't like the aesthetics of most tube gear (to me it looks like it was cobbled together from parts of an old soviet submarine)  i wish more tube amp manufactueres would embrace contemporary design aesthetics.  some exceptions i've seen recently are esoteric, and copland, but the ones that i like the look of tend to be out of my price range (i think i just really prefer a closed-chassis design, i don't need all the bits to be exposed, they just get dusty).

i do think, whether i continue down the separates path, or go integrated, i'll continue to use tubes.

sokogear:

my main source is a rega turbtable.  I would say i use that for all of my more serious listening.  i have a bluesound node streamer for when i just want something in the background while i'm cooking or doing other things.

currently the only "separate" component i hate is the phone stage which i recently added, and it definitely made a difference, which was what got me thinking of the possibility of separates to begin with, having only ever used integrated in the past.

rick2000: wow, those soul note amps are beautiful.  can't say i know anything about them, but they sure look nice.