Thank you all for your responses.
Twl,
Obviously I know you're the inventor of the mods, no need to recuse yourself. I've read all of that amazing thread and everyone who's tried it declares it's a keeper. You should be proud of your baby.
It's good to know that azimuth adjustment is "optional".
I had the same reaction as you to the concept of vertical damping. Damping the arm at the beginning and end of a warp would momentarily increase effective tracking weight. This "should" have only a minor sonic effect. Damping the arm at the top of the warp would prevent a momentary decrease in effective tracking force. This "should" help prevent mis-tracking that might otherwise be audible. Theoretical conclusion: a judicious amount of vertical damping should provide audible benefits on warped records, though possibly minor ones. I suppose experimentation would be in order.
Thanks for the tip on the Expressimo Heavyweight. How would you compare it to your suspended weight mod?
Gregm,
Thanks for the Morch insights. There aren't many users of this arm so it's hard to find a review. Your observations were especially pertinent since our music is also 99% classical, including lots of large scale works. That's what steered me toward the 901 vs. the 501. The 901 reportedly shines in large scale works.
Yes it will be a fairly exotic setup, though hardly in Twl's league. The rest of my stuff is downright pedestrian by comparison. I doubt I'll ever buy another TT. I can't say that about anything else in the system.
4yanx,
At last! Someone who's heard both arms, even if un-modded. Your comparison is about what I would have guessed, but my expectations are based entirely on reading rather than listening. Always best to get an ears-on report. I don't particularly fear working with a tonearm, but then you know what they say about fools and angels!
All,
The Morch was just snapped up by someone else. (If it was one of you, grrr!) Looks like it will be an OL Silver after all. Thanks again for the help. Maybe I'll upgrade to a DP-6 next year, after paying off all this exotica. Really like the idea of a 12" arm. I haven't needed to adjust for skating or non-tangent tracking in over 25 years.
Doug |
Thanks 4yanx. I have NO doubts this rig will blow my current one away. (For $6K+ it had better!) I'm not at all unhappy about going with the OL. It's been on my shortlist for months and actually became the arm of choice after I read the HIFI mod thread. I only went looking again after the evil Chris Brady created the drop-dead gorgeous Teres 265. My partner thought the OL Silver a bit plain by comparison. The Morch certainly answers in that category. Oh well.
Instrumental/voice timbres matter most to me and I can't tolerate digital nastiness, but Paul needs to hear clean attacks/decays and clear, powerful bass. We're a tough pair to satisfy but I think this setup will. Twl's outriggers reportedly control the arm and help the bass, which should be especially good with a Shelter 901. Dammit! I may just order the Classic Records re-release of 'Pictures at an Exhibition' (Reiner/CSO) right now.
Twl, I doubt my store-bought amp will outshine the HOLY GRAIL. :)
I had exactly the same concerns as you about the hanging counterweight (reading your thoughts on that mega-thread was very educational). It might be a disaster on a Linn, but on a Teres, no problem. No floppin' around! I won't be set up for about a month and need to get my feet wet before going too crazy. I've never adjusted VTA/SRA or even used a VTF gauge. Once I climb up the learning curve a bit I'll let you know if I want to try it. Thanks.
Interesting that you find the hanging counterweight,
"makes the arm more liquid sounding, and unencumbered. More lively, open, and responsive." In his review of the OL Encounter for StereoTimes, Paul Szabady said, "The Encounter was in complete control. In comparison, the Encounter's less expensive brother, the Silver, sounded a bit like an over-achiever, less confident in its ability and so pushing harder to make a good impression and occasionally losing control."
Your description of a modded Silver and his description of the Encounter sound strikingly similar to me. I'm very encouraged. |
Hey, I go out of town for one day and this thread goes over the top. Slow down folks, I just got the Shelter today. Still waiting for the TT, stepups and an arm.
Gregm,
Mahler 8? I can't wait! Oops, I don't have Mahler 8 on LP, yet. Can you recommend an available version?
4yanx,
"Silver Bullet", excellent.
I don't know who "Sue" is. I thought audio-tweaking was largely a guy thing. And let's keep dental hardware out of this thread. Who cares about your retainer?! Mark Baker clearly owes Tom Lyons big time. How about a free rewire of Tom's arm with the cable of his choice? Seems only fair.
Twl,
I thought long and hard about the Silver vs. Encounter vs. Illustrious vs. Signature. The larger yoke of the higher end arms looks like it would go part way toward what the bullets do, but only part way. The wiring descriptions seem identical. The only clear differences are the arm tubes and mounting plates. You're far more qualified than me to estimate the relative merits, but my un-educated guess was that diminishing returns set in in a serious way once you go beyond the Encounter. If I had $1995 to spend I'd buy a new DP-6 with a 12" arm. Clear benefits there.
I HAD noticed that the computer generated image of the Silver on OL's website changed recently (in the last two weeks). Guess they were showing the Silver II, at least in concept. Congratulations on a significant compliment from Mark Baker, even if it goes unacknowledged by him.
QUESTION: will the Silver II still accept the Hifi mod? Is there a way to attach the bullets? That way I could end up with a Silver Bullet II. If the II won't accept bullets I'd love to see your shootout results. If a Silver Bullet beats a Silver II, maybe some dealer will still have a Silver I in stock that I can modify.
If I add both your side weights and your counterweight, will I have a Swinging Silver Bullet? |
The best price I've seen for the Heavyweight is $79 at www.elusivedisc.com
Others, including the manufacturer, charge $89 or $99. |
BREAKING NEWS!!!
Doug's LOWFI Mod Passes Initial Tests!
Well, I got my Shelter 901 yesterday. Since I bought it used here I really wanted to try it out ASAP. Of course there were a few hurdles to overcome:
- no Teres TT yet (two more weeks)
- no Origin Live arm yet (ordered a Mk I yesterday, thanks for the heads up on the Mk II Tom)
- no Stephens & Billington stepups yet (due next week)
What's an audiophool to do? I did what any of you would, I installed it in my old rig. Try to read the next bits without laughing louder than I did. Here's the setup:
- 25 year old H-K/Rabco ST-8 TT with its short, featherweight arm, aluminum platter that rings like Big Ben, rumbly AC motor bolted to the plinth mere inches from the platter bearing, phono cable so dry it's about to crack, RCA plugs barely hold on
The counterweight was too feeble to balance the Shelter, so enter Doug's mod. I cut a length of lead solder and taped it to the bottom of the counterweight with electrical tape. Pretty snazzy rig for a $1500 cartridge. Thanks, Twl! ;)
Ready to go? Well, sort of. With no stepups available, I had to make do with the MM phono stage of my (all tube) c-j preamp. Had to crank the gain well past the noise threshhold. When I drop the stylus you hear a nice mix of tube rush and TT rumble. Oh well, how's the music in this uniquely non-synergistic setup?
*&^%$##@!(*&&^@^$#(&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS CARTRIDGE IS INCREDIBLE! We put three hours on it last night. Saved the best for last, Firebird/Dorati/Mercury (Classic Records 45rpm). Shame on me for not holding off until the front end is completed, but I couldn't wait. At the end, after we picked our jaws off the floor and pulled the cats off the drapes, Paul said, "I thought CDs were meant to have more dynamic range." Hysterical laughter from me.
Even mounted in this pitiful and inappropriate setup, the 901 never lost control. I cringed before the first couple of crescendos in antipation of mistracking (or even multi-groove backflips). Nope. Sailed through without a hitch. Bass drum whacks can rearrange the furniture, but they don't prevent the Shelter from playing high strings, cymbals, triangles, etc. as cleanly as it does when all is pppp. Fabulous. |
mejames, the cats ignore most music except very energetic bass. The old cartridge (ADC XLM MkII) did pretty decent bass but the cats rarely noticed. They occasionally look up when a CD really whomps, but not often. When the Shelter reproduced realistic tympani and bass drum hits they both flew out of the room. Peeling them off the drapes a bit of dramatic hyperbole. Sorry :)
Twl, just 30% so far? I think I'm going to melt! Babble, babble, drool... I know the loading was wrong, and the gain, and the stability, and the TT rumble, etc. etc. This is going to be alot of fun. Paul's reaction at the end of 'Firebird' was priceless. Reminded me of the question he asked after we heard our first RCA Living Stereo release on CD. "They recorded this in 1959?! What the hell happened since then? When did they ruin everything?" That's when I knew our transistorized/multitracked/digital listening days were over.
I actually read through the Teres instructions twice before I decided to buy. Those who know me would not be surprised. They actually influenced my decision, since they are very impressive. Don't worry, we'll take our time. Paul has a PhD in materials science and rebuilt two electron microscopes while at university. He understood the theory of your mods after I attempted about three words of explanation. My enthusiasm + his brain = high probability of good outcome. |
Twl,
I'm impressed. Not just by the insights in your review, which we've all come to expect, but by your candid and humble honesty. You expected your baby to "win" and you certainly must have hoped for it to. (I know I did, I've got one on order!) It didn't win, quite, but if your horse finishes second by a nose and cost you 40% less than the winner, you're doing pretty well. "Place" still pays a pretty good purse.
In the areas where your mods would yield the greatest benefits, dynamics and bass, the Swinging Silver Bullet still edged out the Encounter. Just as you predicted. The Encounter outperformed in delicacy and refinement, exactly what we'd expect from higher quality wire and plugs. |
Just in case anybody's watching, we received our TX103 stepups yesterday from BentAudio. John Chapman (nice guy) builds these using Stephens & Billington transformers. To minimize connections and solder joints he extends the secondary all the way to the RCA jack that plugs into the phono stage. There's also a pair of small binding posts across the secondary, which allows quick and easy swapping of load resistors. Very nice workmanship.
Now that the Shelter is loaded properly and we plenty of gain, things have gotten a whole lot better. I'll spare you the hysterical ravings, although it's not easy :) :) :)
Anthony Salvatore thinks low level detail is the key benchmark of a system. YMMV of course. One of his guidelines is whether you can detect the occasional pre-echo that's on some LP's. It's not that you want to hear them of course, but you certainly want to be able to! We always could hear pre-echoes when the opening passage was ffff, or even ff. Last night I caught a pre-echo of a solo piano playing at pp, no joke. Utterly amazing.
The Teres and OL are in transit so we're still using the HK/Rabco. The effects of a ringing platter and uncontrolled arm are now very audible. Can't wait for that 60 pound hunk of wood!
The gain control on the pre is now slightly lower than for line level sources, so we may have a little too much gain. Hmm, should I add a pair of step-DOWN trannies? :) |
David,
I suppose a bit of extra gain isn't really a problem, though it makes setting volume kind of touchy. We're at full listening volume at about 9 o'clock. Any idea if different 12AX7's in the phono stage would modify this?
Mr. Chapman confirmed my guess that 20dB would be best. 5dB would have been inadequate to drop the noise floor low enough. It's so low now it's scary, love these trannies.
CHRIS BRADY - IF YOU'RE READING THIS GET BACK TO THE WORKBENCH! Just kidding, take your time and do it right. (Actually Chris has already told us it's shipping this week. We bought #10 of the twelve 265's he received in late July, so I'm sure he's been busy.)
I ordered the OL from Galen Carol, who had to call OL to get a Silver Mk I. The Mk II won't accept the HiFi mod. OL had to ship to Galen for reshipment to me. The good news? Galen got it in Monday and turned it around the same day.
We're almost there! |
Swampwalker, thanks for the tip. I'll check it out. Of course if pushing a lower gain tube harder would raise the noise floor, as Tom implies, I might just leave things as they are. I'm still learning here :)
Tom, I'm already loving the lower noise floor, even with the poor old TT and arm. Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra last night was shocking, like hearing the full score for the first time. Quiet passages were mesmerizing, and once again a full tutti for brass panicked the cats. Maybe I should upgrade to a 2wpc amp for their sake! |
