USB DACs with 24/192 via USB

07-29-09: Kops
upconversion is wrong way.....native is needed

I get the impression that the PS Audio DAC III is 24/192 in native mode. It upconverts lower sampling rates and shorter word lengths to 24/192. Therefore, I presume that if it receives a 24/192 digital bitstream, it will decode it in native mode as there's nothing to upsample.

BTW, the $299 Musical Fidelity V-DAC also runs internally at 24/192 and has a USB input.

Therefore, I presume that if it receives a 24/192 digital bitstream, it will decode it in native mode as there's nothing to upsample.

Not all DACs can receive a 24/192 stream even though they upsample. In particular 24/192is only possibly via USB if the unit requires special drivers to be installed on Windows or OSX (see for example EMU0404 USB). A USB input on a DAC does not necessarily mean it goes all the way to 24/192.

For example:
- Bryston BDA-1 (only 16/44 and 16/48 via USB)
- Bel Canto e.One DAC3 (only 16/44 and 16/48 via USB)
- Benchmark DAC1 USB (16/44, 16/48, 24/88.2, 24/96 via USB)
- PS Audio DLIII (only 16/44 and 16/48 via USB)

This websites list the USB input rates for different DACs with USB input (if available):

The Well Tempered Computer

Thanks for all the input. I've decided to go with the Playback Designs MPD-5 DAC. They claim "no jitter" on any input, which hopefully solves my original issue of how to get 24/192 from PC to DAC with the least amountof jitter. This hopefully removes the need to go with USB/Firewire or a USB/Firewire converter out of the PC. After I get the DAC, I'll compare at 24/96: 1) Lynx soundcard with an AES cable, 2) USB into my Empirical Audio Turbo USB-to-AES converter, and 3) USB straight into the DAC. Should be interesting... Also, looking forward to trying 24/192, which was the original target.

After I get the DAC, I'll compare at 24/96: 1) Lynx soundcard with an AES cable, 2) USB into my Empirical Audio Turbo USB-to-AES converter, and 3) USB straight into the DAC. Should be interesting... Also, looking forward to trying 24/192, which was the original target.

On the Playback design website it mentioned that USB only goes to 48kHz - I guess you'll go high rez 24/192 via the Lynx only? I don't think the USB comparison will be very meaningful - given the implementation my guess would be the USB input is again not close to the Lynx.

Restock, I've read conflicting info on whether it does 48 or 96 via USB. I would assume that their web site is correct. If it only does 48, then I'll do the comparisons at 48, or 44.1.

In any event, I agree that I'll need to use AES from the Lynx card for 24/192. My hope here is to use only the Lynx card with one AES cable for all signals. This seems like an easy, clean solution -- no need for multiple cables from the PC or pricey converters -- and the AES cable will support all sample rates.

I had considered using a different DAC with a Weiss Firewire converter or multiple Empirical Audio Turbo USB converters (each EA converter can only support 2 sample rates, such as 44.1 and 24/96). But after you add up the price for these converters plus a 30m optical firewire/USB cable, you might as well go with a DAC that has analogue jitter reduction (allegedly same low jitter on any digital input), like the Playback Designs.

I think I made an incorrect statement in my last post. I said the EA Turbo (Off-ramp) can only support 2 sample rates. I think this is wrong. Perhaps only the EA Pace Car can only support 2 sample rates?

the latest Cary CD 303T Super Audio CD player comes with an USB DAC (24bit/192kHz)

http://www.caryaudio.com/products/classic/CD303TSACDPro.html

Esoteric D-07

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/d07/index.html

sorry, it appears that D-07 accepts only 24/96kHz on USB input :(

The problem with the TAS review, from my reading of it and the author's other comments, is that the USB DACs were tested on the assumption that customers just wanted to plug them into their existing computers. Therefore the reviewer made no attempt to use an optimal PC or Mac build. This invalidates his findings for high-end users who, if they have any sense, will dedicate a computer to audio duties and attend to its performance and setup. The reviewer missed the point that while many USB Dacs have been made for the convenience of the iPod generation, there is a growing market of audiophiles who are embracing computer audio for better sound. I understand the Wavelength product was pulled from the review because it was going to be tested in that silly context. Like test driving some new racing tyres on a Prius. The reviewer picked the wrong audience in my view, or has the Absolute Sound slipped further than I had thought?

The trouble of course is the low level of understanding of computer audio and that this leads people to ask the wrong questions - such as whether USB DACs are better or not. What matters is that yes you can get state of the art sound out of computer audio, and that like everything else, it depends on the implementation and it, of course, doesn't come cheap.

i agree antipodes. i had been waiting for this issue thinking it would be more imformative. what a waist. written for ipoders and not audiogoners. i left the digetal domain 8 or 9 yrs ago and been vinyl/2 channel only since. i don't get the reviews on the epensive or even cheap transports, why would anyone buy one? it's only a diferant and out dated way of recieving bits. it is aparant to me where the high end in digital is headed and it certainly should be to tas. their computer info was a joke and the 14 ways to imprving sound, give me a break.

I don't know that much about this stuff. I'm trying to record music that I have a subscription to Echoes from WXPN on my laptop to a cd recorder. I tried a headphone jack with two RCA cables. Now I'm trying a Benchmark USB DAC. The guy at the stereo store said it's compressed music and with a dac it uncompresses it but I have to mention it really isn't a big difference. It does seem to sound better going through my pre amplifier (McIntosh 2200) but then I read the less souces the better. I been playing this through my system before I even record. Does anybody have any suggestions?

It would be much appreciated,
Robert

M2Tech HiFace is 192k capable USB2 to SPDIF capable async converter

Why even bother with USB interface? Get a firewire card and go from there. Are you willing to pay premium just to deal with USB nasties? You can get much better sound for your money with firewire DACs.

Been there done this. I was using an M-Audio Firewire Audiphile interface since 2005, then a Konnekt 8, 24D, used Mytek and Lynx pro mastering DACs with Firewire connections too. The M2Tech HiFace is right there, works very well on my Mac. It is a different, very clever USB2 interface, for peanuts.

Ferenc,

Can you share any impressions on the Konnekt 8 vs. Hiface in terms of sound quality? I use a Mac and have been looking at both of these options, as well as the Music Streamer Pro. However, the Music Streamer only supports up to 24/96.

Hi-

The M2Tech HiFace USB>S/PDIF interface will work with files up to and including 24/192.

From what I understand Empirical Audio will be adding USB 24/192 abilities to their Offramp and PaceCar interfaces later this year, as well as to their Overdrive DAC.

Check periodically at http://empiricalaudio.com or the audio circle forum http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=40.0

Clio9,

the music just flows better, more natural, more enjoyable with the HiFace. Everything is cleaner more musical. If you have a BNC connector on your DAC, get the HiFace with BNC, it is even better with a Naim DC1 BNC-BNC SPDIF cable.
I tried the HiFace with an Altmann Attraction DAC, with a Lavry DA10, Naim Uniti and worked very well.

The CES is demo'ing $20,000 DACs which might have one percent less jitter than the VDAC or the GRT Plus.

does the PS Audio DL3 accept 192khz via DigiCoax? if so, the M2tech hiface interface, with a PS audio, may be the best combo yet!

an egg now and then isn't an altogether bad thing and I've managed to wipe most of it off my face now.....

Although I’m not actually from Missouri when I am shown something is audibly better than something else I’ve grown accustomed too, I’m fine with it… especially if the new item is a gizmo I can actually acquire.

Using the M2Tech Hiface briefly in house showed me it was a substantial gain over a modestly priced sound card of proportedly identical output capacities.

Past the more obvious traits of heightened cleanliness and clarity within the scope of the music, it was portrayed with greater fidelity and naturalness in 16/44 & 24/96 FLAC using both J River MC & Fubar 102. the latter player was the better sounding experience IMHO in conjunction with the Hiface’ Kernal Streaming mode. Even AAC (m4a) files seemed better overall, as did several other file types.

Small, lightweight, Plug ‘N Play, self powered, exceptionally lowered jitter (presumably), external application, and most importantly… affordable!!

Now, where it stacks up against a true high end sound card or another likewise adapter, I can not say. For now however at < $200, it’s a true no brainer of a decision if you’re aim is to use a pc as a source.

This should be interesting now… seeing how it stands up against more higher costing devices. It stopped me for a time, from investing in a Lynx or further upscale interface, as I’ve found it a bona fide step up in overall audio performance, yielding a more naturally accurate insight to the musical presentation.

The hidden bonus of it working best with a free media player was just icing. ;-))

Updating this thread;

There's the M2Tech Hiface USB to SPDIF interface. It will get you perfect audio output from a computer USB port to your DAC.

The Empirical Audio products are all now being made compatible for output up to 24/192. The website hasn't been updated with this info, but the Empirical discussion group at audiocircle received an official announcement. Email Steve and I'm sure he will be glad to confirm himself.

I think you will be seeing this as a common feature on many new products with USB

Audio Research is coming out with one (DAC 8)

Well, not quite perfect Firedog55 (your comments about the Hiface). A number of devices I have tried sound a lot better than the Hiface, albeit for more money.