USB DACs, WIndows 11, and newer Intel chipsets

@milpai  I don’t think you actually read my posting.  Your response has almost nothing to do with my question.  And your comment about Audiogon being an "analog" site is, um, a bit incomprehensible.  Do a quick search for "DAC" or "streamer".  Maybe what you wrote is not what you meant?

Thanks for trying, though.  I appreciate the effort you took to reply, which is more than anybody else has done so far.  I stopped by AudiophileStyle per your suggestion but didnt' see anything on point.

C

@srinisr  Great timing.  I was about to edit my last posting to add Schiit to my closing Audioquest remark.  I’m not familiar with most of Schiit’s current offerings these days, but you’ve used these devices with late-model PC hardware?

I’ll check out those two models right now.  Thanks.

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Update: Took a look at the two DACs you recommended.  Functionally, the Mimir seems to be the closest fit.  I have questions out to Schiit Support re: compatibility with newer motherboards that lack Legacy USB suppot.  Thanks again.

Boy, it’s amazing how much Schiit’s prices have gone up.  Probably a tariff issue.  To the company’s credit, though, it’s still a cost-effective option -- no tariff will affect my purchase decision!

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Re: your other comment, the compatibility issue isn't with Windows 11.  It's occurring at the hardware level.  The UEFI doesn't even see my Explorer because that USB 2.0 device can't respond fast enough to the chipset to identify itself at POST.  Despite its decent sonics, the Explorer has always been a bit flaky, but it's now time, I think, to move on.

Boy, I don’t think anybody read my message.

@mikhailark , as I mentioned, this computer is a brand-new build, and the problem is that the Explorer2 is incompatible with the latest Intel chipset.  The DAC worked fine on my OLDER machine.  And I’ve never owned a PC, since the mid-1980s, and maybe not even then, that wasn’t fast enough to render digital audio.  Jeez, even the machine I replaced (which was about 1/3 the speed of my new one) had orders of magnitude more power than it needed for hirez multimedia under Win10 OR Win11.

@ghdprentice  Again, I’m looking for a DAC for my desktop Windows 11 PC.  No need for a streamer -- I mean, the entire computer is a streamer!  I’m not gonna do "critical" audiophile listening on my PC while I edit a Word or Excel file or (my primary Windows application) compose orchestral scores. Don’t need multi-room streaming (although now you’ve got me thinking about that!)  A $200 prosumer DAC would do the job & if I need to listen more critically, well, I’ve got a $19K DAC/streamer/amp in the next room.  But since you brought it up, which products in particular are you recommending for my application?  What kind of topology are you thinking about?  Regardless, the one component that is absolutely essential in any configuration is a local DAC, because, regardless of my source, I still need a signal path between the PC & the Sonigistix MM-1000s.

Look, I’m just looking for a recommendation for an entry-level audiophile DAC for Windows that someone can confirm, from first-hand experience, is likely to be compatible with the latest Intel-based motherboards.  The little Audioquest DACs seem to be an obvious choice, but I don’t want to throw away even as little as a few hundred bucks on a product that won’t work with the latest hardware.  At this point, I’m more concerned about wasting my time than a relatively small amount of $.

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Actually, if anybody else runs into a similar problem -- and given the enormous scope of the forced Win11 upgrade, I’d be surprised if there aren’t -- one other solution to the problem would be to add a  USB 2.0 port to your PC.  It would have to be done by bypassing the motherboard’s USB 3.x host controller.

How do you do that?  You buy an inexpensive USB 2.0 PCIe card and simply plug it into your machine. That would provide a USB connection that is by default legacy protocol, and that has nothing at all with the motherboard's built-in USB 3 bus.

Not sure if that would work in the case of the notoriously finicky Meridian Explorer DAC, but if I wasn’t so exhasuted by all this already, it would be worth $20 or $30 to try it out.  And even the newest motherboards have an extra PCIe slot (in addition to the obligatory graphics-board slot).  So if it works, this would be a quick, cheap fix that takes only a couple of minutes to try out.

Just sayin’.

Just want to reiterate, b/c I'm still getting public and private messages  that seem to be making the wrong assumption.  The incompatibility here is not with WIndows 11.  It's with the new (and quite popular) Intel chipset -- and with the latest generation of motherboards that, apparently with Intel's blessing, have eliminated support for legacy USB devices.

USB 1.0 is pretty old, sure, but there are zillions of USB 2.0 products in the field today, including most audiophile USB DACs, and while some of them just happen to be fast enough to enumerate properly with the Z890 & its USB 3 host controllers, others, like my Meridian Explorer2, are not.  I'm also having similar problems with other legacy peripherals, but the Explorer2/Monsoon combo is the crux of my desktop audio.system.

@dhungana  My Asus motherboard already has halfway-decent 7.1 audio and, tbh, I doubt if any Soundblaster has digital output that would produce better results, if you're suggesting using a DAC.

So adding an internal sound board wouldn't solve any problems.  And it would add extra cost for redundant functionality.  Worst of all, it would likely consume the only remaining PCIe slot on the motherboard.  So I haven't been looking at that kind of solution.

A USB DAC seems like the simplest way to get "entry-level audiophile" sound out to my Monsoons.

But thanks for the suggestion.

RESOLUTION:

After digging into the ASUS motherboard’s audio topology, it looks like the board’s built-in audio is likely good enough for my application.  The rear analog outputs are decoded by the same Sabre ESS DAC used in LG’s "audiophile-leaning" V-series ThinQ phones (reviewed very favorably several years ago in TAS/Stereophile).

Yes, the choice of a DAC chip hardly tells the whole story, but the point is that the board’s audio circuitry is more like that of the Topping, Cambridge Audio, & Pro-Ject DACs that incorporate the non-mobile version of this same chip, than like the crappy, noisy audio output that has long plagued most onboard PC audio..

In my office environment, with its chassis-fan, printer, air-conditioner, street noise, and acoustically compromised, nearfield listening environment, I think the board’s ESS Sabre DAC, extensive shielding, and decent TI op-amp make it good enough for my applications (again, mainly music composition & orchestration).

The tipping point came when I managed to mitigate that ASUS/Monsoon impedance-matching issue by tweaking the gain configuration across all stages of the audio-signal path.

This was an interesting thread.  Being an old PC-head, I’d never thought that motherboard audio could ever be sufficient for even non-critical applicatons.  But after listening to this ASUS onboard-audio implementation for most of the day, this old dog may have learned a new trick.  If I want to play UHQR vinyl or listen to hirez streaming, there’s a $50K setup in the next room.  But for office and music-composition applications, all I can say is "Sayonara USB DACs!".

@milpai

Sigh.  Again, Windows is not the issue.  This is a hardware problem rooted in the different timing of the handshaking that takes place when a motherboard initializes its USB ports.  Some devices just can’t identify themselves fast enough to be enumerated during POST.  The souped-up ASUS deployment for this chipset, even when not overclocked, does not recognize the Explorer in the UEFI, long before it even attempts to load Windows.  Trust me on this.  I’ve got over 40 years experience debugging PC hardware -- personally and professionally -- and did some deep research to diagnose the problem.  From what other mobo mfrs are saying, this is quickly becoming the rule, not the exception, in PCs that use newer hardware.  Intel is discouraging OEMs from supporting legacy components.  That kind of attitude was one reason why I never found Apple all that attractive, and now the Microsoft/Intel axis is doing the same thing.

We’ll have to agree to disagree re: whether Audiogon is a credible forum for discussions of "digital" gear. I have no idea why anybody would contest that, but whatever. I did check out Audiophile Style, as you suggested, but it didn’t seem to me to offer anything beyond what I see here at Audiogon.

You want to know what’s in my system?  Well, OK.  Harbeth speakers, T+A electronics, GEM Dandy Polytable Signature turntable, DS Audio cartridge & EQ, Korf arm, Marantz surround processor, MartinLogan sub (my weak link: soon to be upgraded to a pair of Perlistens), Audioquest Niagara power conditioner and power cables, and lots of odds & ends, like Analysis Plus Silver Apex interconnects, Wireworld speaker cables, etc. etc.  Now that I think about it, $50K may have been a lowball, when I’ve spent five figures just on cabling.  <wide-eyed stare> Jeezus, how much HAVE I spent??