upsampling?

Last summer, we had long, and often heated, threads about the difference)s) between "upsampling" and the more conventional term for increasing the digital sample rate, ie "over sampling", and it seems they are essentially the same thing. So any good DAC or CD player whether touting upsampling or not should sound good. Levinson DACs sample at a rate of about 352 KHZ, and they they call it 8X oversampling. When I asked Madrigal about it, they said "do you want us to lower our standards to 192 KHZ?". If you don't believe this, check with Resolution Audion, Muse Electronics, Theta Digital, Madrigal Audio and other digital manufacturers. Even JA of Stereophile finally admitted that they are essentially the same. As to sound quality differences, it's just a matter of the way the technology is implemented. And yes, at the cost, dCS gear should be excellent. I personally use the ML 360S and it also is excellent. I Don't really want to stir up a heated debate on this again, so if you want, just look up threads under upsampling. Cheers. Craig.

Dan 2112, I agree, it is a matter of semantics, and the digital designers that were contacted last summer (see above) also agreed that the difference between upsampling and over-sampling is purely semantic-- and to some extent "marketing hype" . Bpgtt's numbers are pretty confusing. Increasing the sample rate of a digital stream is based on the Sony/Phillips Red Book for CDs which specifies a 16 bit word length sampled at a rate of 44.1 kHZ. The word length cannot be increased without adding dither (noise). As to the sample rate, it can be whatever the designer wants, or deems desireable. But 8X oversampling has been used since the early to mid '80s, even in inexpensive CD players, ie it is not new technology, and re-naming it "up-sampling" does not make it so. An "upsampled" value such as 192 kHZ cannot then be "oversampled"-- unless you just want to play word games. Rather than beat this to death again, please, please, please look up the past threads on: "upsampling", "what the heck is Resolution Audio", and "up and over sampling". There are direct quotes from leading digital designers such as Jeff Kalt of Resolution Audio, and Kevin Halverson of Muse Electronics. I am certainly not an expert on this subject, and what I know is what was learned in the threads last summer. And yes, I also contacted Madrigal Audio, who had released a position paper on the subject in layman's terms. I agree that Bpgtt is right on when he says (paraphrasing) go out and listen and let your ears be the judge. It seems to me that the sound/music quality differences among competing digital components has more to do with the method of implementation, and parts and build quality. I have not heard dCS gear, but would expect it to be excellent. I find my Levinson gear to be excellent also. Cheers (I hope). Craig

....BTW, Kevin Halverson also released an excellent position paper on this subject. To address Hornby's question, I would only say that "upsamplers" such as MSB, Bel Canto, dCS, and others are essentially similar to any outboard DAC, and there are many. Pick your price and as Bpgtt says, let your ears be the judge. Craig