@david_ten Thanks for the gut-check. My gut is telling me to go with the 75SE upgrade, see if that does it. I'm not looking for a macro difference, just a bit more definition in the bottom octaves. I actually am crazy about the rest of the sound, so much so I don't want to mess with it too much.
@lostbears I'm wondering what the real difference in sound is between the 150 and the 75, both non-SE. I know the bigger power supply (2x, I think) would be helpful. I'm not sure the watts, alone, would bring what I want. I can get plenty loud. I normally have me pre [12-29].
I've also considered the 5SE upgrade. I've heard the 3 to 5 isn't really worth it; a bit different, not necessarily better. I think the 75 has the same power supply as your 110. I've asked my audio dealer to run some numbers on trading in my 75 for the 150SE. I'm guessing, I'll need to add 7-9k in addition to the 75 trade in.
Thanks to all of you for your comments.
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Seems your collective advice is as back and forth as my thoughts. 😀 I think I'm going to give the 75se a rip and invest further in isolation w ref speaker cables G5 on the horizon. I am demoing 1 pr of Grand Prix isolation feet and the make a big difference under the amp in soundstage depth and precision.
and a bit in the bass. Under the source, much inner detail comes to light.
Thanks all!!! |
Say one thing, do another, huh? I just pulled the trigger on a very nice looking ARC Ref 150 (non SE) here. Price seemed very good. After I sell my Ref 75 (even below current offering asking prices here), it is going to come out $500-1k less dinero - as apposed to the $2500 to make the 75 a 75SE. So, I figured I'd jump on this 150.
I'll post a comparison of the 75 to the 150 in my system if anyone is interested.
@dev I just bought two sets of the Grand Prix Audio isolation feet. Second pair under the source Lumin added inner detail I can't un-hear. Just solid improvement all around.
Thanks again to all for your valuable input.
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Alright. The 150 arrived.
I'm hoping it might need to break in some. Right now it feels a bit like it's going through the motions. The emotional connection to the performance I was getting through the Ref 75, just isn't there.
I know tubes need to set in. About how long does that take in your all's experience? (All new tubes. They were all matched very well, w/in 1mv of master-slave, from TheTubeStore).
The bass does have the nth more control and it pressurizes my room a bit better on more demanding tracks.
Right now, the plan is to let it play over night and check in again in the morning. I'll likely let it play for a couple days before making any decisions. But, if things don't get much better (engaging emotionally), I'll be putting the 75 back in by end of weekend.
Any advice, tips, experience. How long should I wait to decide? |
I don't know. I don't think that's it. The ref 150 had kt120s in it too. both have 120s in. Never heard the kt150s
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@david12
I think I'm coming to the same conclusion. Anyone looking for a very nice Ref 150?
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Yep... Oh well. I got the 150 for a pretty good price... Hopefully, I can get back the same.
I've removed my Ref 75 ad. |
The Ref 150 is posted back for sale on here. It's an awesome amp, just not the right cup of tea for my system and ears. |
@david_ten
I would, but I'm not so hesitant to do anything to this 75.
Can anyone comment; does upgrading to 75 make the amp lose any of it's sweetness, personality, and emotion (connection to the artist)?
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Checking back in on this.
I listened to the Ref 150 for quite a while. Just sold it on here. It is a VERY nice amp, but to me the sweetness of the 75 it can't match.
It beats the 75 in soundstage depth, grip, venue/ambiance, and pace. But to my ears the 75 beats it nearly everywhere else; timbre, sweetness, finer grain, acoustic bellows tube sound, emotional connection to the artist(s) - and I never feel like I'm missing the extra watts.
Also, I just purchased a 75SE. Should be here tomorrow. My 75 will be going up for sale here.
Thanks all.
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@david_ten
i don't know yet. The 75se arrived with some damage. I've returned it to the store to have their tech look at it. The left channel wasn't working. I hope to have it back soon. Hoping it's simple and doesn't require a refund. When I get it back I'll have an update
By the way, the arc sourced kt150/ it came with worked perfectly w my non SE so I need to return thetubestore tubes for another set - witch they have been very good about (cust serv).
Ugg. First-world problems!! 😀 |
It continues.
I had to return the Ref 75SE (by the way the customer service from The Music Room who I purchased it from here on A'gon is awesome). It had at least a fried resistor when I received it. They made it right w/ prompt and full refund.
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So, with the returning of the Ref75SE, I'm considering a Ref 150 SE that is for sale here/now.
Has anyone compared the Ref75 to the 150SE?
When I A/B compared in my system the Ref75 and the non SE Ref150, I fell more for the sweetness and emotional performance engagement of the 75 over the authority and soundstage of the 150. However, I felt/and do feel that the 75 is a bit bright (like a gold gilding) on the the high highs (like symbols in rock music). The 150 seemed to provide better control of the highs (as well as the low band)
The 150 took those edges off and made more music more enjoyable, but I lost a few degrees of in-the-room magic that the 75 provides on more close, small-scale performances.
So, I'm wondering if the Ref 150SE provides both...???
Let the debate begin (again).
I value your thoughts and personal experience-based opinions.
Thanks in advance!
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Update:
I received the Ref 150SE, dropped it in, and was not initially blown away.
It has ~600 original hours. It has always been an SE.
I let it play for about 10 hours, still wasn't taken by it.
I put the Ref 75 (non SE) back in. It sounded sweeter, but thin and tinny/splashy by comparison. Put the KT150s in the 75, it sounded less sweet, less splashy, but firmer bass (which can sound like less bass), also less billowing (bellows) sound. It gave a bit more body to the Ref 75.
I put the Ref 150 SE back in, and realized how good it actually sounded. Plus I think it hadn't been played in awhile, so I think it's still having a bit of a re-breaking/settling in.
Short story: Ref 150SE is now beating the Ref 75 nearly across the board.
NOTE: It was critical to have isolation under the digital source to get sweetness back from the system w/ the 150SE in.
If anyone is interested in deeper, specific, more critical analysis as I go along, I'm happy to check back in here.
I'll likely be playing and swapping through the weekend.
Thanks!
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It is definitely always changing, and you cannot really tell what one tweak in one system will result in in another system. Things are not linear.
More listening today. Short story: I'll be keeping the 150SE.
I'll be giving up the nth degree of sweetness on some recordings, for sweeping improvement across most everything - in my system. |
Ultimately, I can’t get away from he ref75. I added kt150s, and it’s a real dream. Even prefer it w my Wilson Alexias. Wow. |
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Hi dhite71. I did try the 75se, and it is significantly better than the 75. I’m on to Focal Sopra and I felt the ARC gear was a little white/dry for them. I’m on to PrimaLuna Evo400 separates. The preamp is a stunner. The amp is not as special as the 75 or 150.
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