Update From Ron New Day Record Covid 19 Battle

"Any vaccine used in the past, correct me if I'm wrong (🙄) required one shot."

As pointed out previously, you are indeed wrong. Vaccines as common as Chickenpox (Varicella) are multi-dose, as are Hepatitus A and B, and many require annual boosters. Once again, if you had an understanding of what vaccines are, and what they do, you would understand why that is perfectly logical. People talk about vaccines "wearing out" or "stopping working" - but that is profoundly inaccurate. Vaccines are totally transitory in the body - they are destroyed by the body in short order, by the very same immune respose they provoke (except for mRNA vaccines which use the natural iintra-cellular mRNA post-use elimination mechanisms, the proteins produced are removed by the immune response), and after that its totally up to your natural immune system to "remember" the pattern for antibodies needed if that infection returns. Vaccines do not *create* any immunity, they trigger your own body to create its own immunity by *simulating* an infection with the particular pathogen.  Get it?

This is why vaccines are NOT drugs. They do not have any intrinsic therapeutic effect. They trigger your body to defend itself. They bear absolutely zero functional relationship to antibiotics or antivirals that do, on their own, destory infective agents. So please, if you do nothing else, learn the difference as it's key to understanding vaccines. And if you do get COVID, you can then refrain from asking for the vaccine once you hit the hospital, and if you do so anyway, and they laugh, you'll understand why.

"First it was the Corona. Then it changed to Covid. All the while referred to as a Virus. Then it morphed into Delta, but still also Covid. Now it is sometimes referred to as the Disease."

Seriously, why you maintain such willful ignorance? This is akin to saying "well first it was AIDs then it was 'the gay plague', and then it was HIV, all while being called a virus". Well DUH! They all refer to the same infection and infective agent, one just being a pejorative.  Corona is a family of viruses (some of which are responsible for many common colds, and has been know for many decades), COVID is simply COronaVIrusDisease, the "-19" is simply an identifier of the year, 2019 it was characterized. You also hear it called SARS-COV-2, which is merely a generic term for the second SevereAcuteRespiratorySyndrome identified as caused by a Corona virus. All the same virus, all the same disease. None of this is hidden, none of it takes more than 2 minutes on Google if you have any curiousity. This is not hard.

Now Delta, ah yes, that's a good one. Here's where folks like you can step up and take FULL credit for the folks infected with the Delta (and subsequent) variant of COVID-19. Unlike bacteria, or parasites (like the Plasmodium that causes malaria for e.g.), viruses cannot do anything at all unless they can infect a host. They do not possess any "cellular machinery" to perform any metabolic processes. The ONLY WAY viruses can reproduce, and thus mutate, is to infect a host, let's say oh, gee, an unvaccinated human, and for subtle changes to be made to some of the viruses due to transcription errors during replication of the viral RNA (or DNA depending on the virus). That's it. The more infections, the higher the reproduction rate and the higher the number of viral mutations. Even with the vast majority of those mutations being detrimental to the virus, out of trillions and trillions of viral genetic material transcriptions, some of those are going to cause a small positive change (from the virus's point of view) in the virus allowing it to become more deadly, or to spread or infect more easily, or to remain viable outside of a host longer, or some combination of those and similar traits. Then even more people die, and at some point, it *can* mutate to the point where antibodies made in response to vaccines based on the wild type virus, no longer recognize the new one. And Death reigns once more.

So yes, Virginia, you really can endanger the lives of many, many others by sheltering in willful ignorance, refusing to be vaccinated, and thus volunteering to be host for the next viral mutation orgy. It's not just your life, your liberty, you're playing with here. So spin the wheel and see if you win a chance to become the next Typhoid Mary!!!

Well, folks, first off NO vaccine has ever, or will ever be 100% effective. If you expect that, you are profoundly ignorant of how vaccines work.  Vaccines rely ENTIRELY on the natural immune system of the patient. Guess what, people respond differently. It's nature, not a CIA conspiracy, or alien lizard people engaging in a covert Earth takeover attempt.

If you don't understand genetics, or protein coding and manufacture at the cellular level then you have no idea how the mRNA vaccines work, so how 'bout learning some biology before propagating nonsense?

Now, yeah Christmas is coming and I'm looking for a recommendation for a decent CD player to replace/augment my long in the tooth Sony XA20-ES.  Tried the Marantz CD-6007 but it didn't beat my Sony. Not looking to spend the farm for my old ears, but the Sony won't last forever.

@ml8764ag

You need only to know about Louis Pasteur to know masks are effective against airborne infective agents.  Once it was confirmed to be airborne, it's intuitively obvious - knowing any history - that a mask is a smart idea.

@artemus_5

"including the inventor of mRNA?"  Good lord man, do you *really* think mRNA was invented by a man???  mRNA was "invented" by evolution (or God if you believe in that...stuff). mRNA codes for proteins, and the vaccine is just mRNA strands that code for a specific spike protein, and has the body's cells produce it to tirgger the immune response. You can either learn facts, or spout nonsense. Clearly you've chosen the latter.

Make that "anti-parasitical".  We children love to correct our mistakes.

@mahgister6

Your reaction resemble a child reaction when he "proudly" spot an error in the discourse of a grown up...

Uhmm OK, so read further in that asinine post by @artemus_5:

"Why is the vaccine mandated or lose your job?"

Why have vaccines always been mandated for children if they want go to school? Same reason. They don't call it PUBLIC HEALTH just for giggles, you know?

"Why do you still need a mask IF the vaccine works?"

Because vaccines are NEVER, EVER 100% effective, and you can be transmissive anytime you are infected, whether you are symptomatic or not. Exactly as with Influenza, measles, etc. etc.  As pointed out ad nauseum by every expert everywhere, while ignored in the fever swamps of the internet.

"Why is ivermectin, hydrochloroguine et al not allowed to be used despite its efficacy rate?"

There is no established "efficacy rate" for either of these. Just anecdotal nonsense. YOU tell ME why anti-parisitcal medications *would* be efficacious against a VIRUS? All real studies have shown hydroxchloroquine to be ineffective. Both have side effects as well. Yes, vaccines have side effects, but they are also efficacious.

"Why is the vaccine mandated even on those who have had Covid and have better immunity than the vaccine gives?"

Evidence is now clear that in fact, "natural" antibody response is not as effective as the mRNA vaccines. And no one knows the length of antibody activity at this time.

So, @mahgister6, you tell me whether, in light of the baseless nonsense in the rest of his post, I should assume he a) obviously knew what he was talking about, but made a simple ommission, or b) he's clueless about biology and vaccines?  If you choose a) then I submit you are hopeless. And, it's not my job to pick out the rare omission out of a trough of swill.

Sorry, but we "children" are wont to read and react to the tone and content of the entire post/response, instead of instead of working ourselves up into a slathering froth on perusing merely the response lede.

@artemus_5

But i can’t imagine freedom spreading or even surviving when we wish death on someone with whom we disagree.

On that we definitely share common ground. A lot of animals on the other side of that fence however.

I've spent 4 1/2 decades in the Pharma world - still in it - including many vaccines like Flu and Smallpox. There are no "conspiracies" that I've ever seen. Like corporate America in general, the motivations of companies range from heartfelt desire to help people to unbridled greed (like the pharmabro clown).  The latter, except in very rare instances (e.g. branded companies colluding with a generic manufacturer near patent expiry) makes the idea of the companies colluding mostly laughable. FDA reviews and approves vaccines, Fauci is not involved in any way with that.  And once you've seen a few dozen actual clinical trials, the anecdotal claims of wishful thinkers pretty much laid bare the folly in correlation being used as causation.

Anybody remember Laetril?

@jayctoy - You were misinformed then. These mRNA vaccines are indeed vaccines. They stimulate the production of T and B lymphocytes that key on the spike protein the RNA codes for -that is what vaccines *do*, evoke the immune response. This mRNA platform has been in development for over a decade, and its whole thrust is to be able to rapidly adjust *the platform* to code for different proteins, and thus for different organisms and viruses. There is nothing, whatsoever, in the vaccine that's *from* the virus itself. Unlike Flu where portions of the deactivated virus are used to stimulate the immune response, the mRNA vaccine does it by having the patient cells build and express the spike protein that forms part of the viral capsule. It's not FROM the virus, as traditional vaccines are, hence its ludicrous for anyone to claim you can get COVID from the vaccine. Literally impossible. With mRNA platform you need only isolate a protein, or proteins from the viral coat, code the mRNA strand to produce the protein, and incorporate that into the delivery platform.

This is totally different than virus based vaccines, like Influenza that require infecting chicken eggs and growing the virus so it can be harvested and deactivated, and purified.  Or the Smallpox vaccine which is very old tech using a live virus as the sensitizing agent. Smallpox is caused by a Variola virus while the vaccine is a live Vaccinia virus (hence the name Vaccine) that's related to cow/monkey/camel pox. Again, you have to grow the virus (and they are very picky about growth media, unlike bacteria), and *that* is the rate limiting step for development, clinical trials, and commercial manufacturing. COVID is the proof of concept vaccine for the mRNA platform, and will likely overtake all old platforms going forward.

It is absolutely true that had this not been a pandemic, approval would not have been fast-tracked the same way it was, and FDA would've required longer phase 3 studies before approval (in this case an EUA), because they are very risk averse. However, the data now available on the mRNA vaccines vastly, by orders of magnitude, exceeds the the data available prior to approval of any other vaccine. Keep in mind also that there have been Phase 1 and 2 studies being conducted under INDs (investigation new drug application) for the mRNA platform for over a half-dozen years, and all that data was before FDA for years prior to any use for COVID. This was not developed in a year, that's just a fact, easily verifiable by anyone.

@Glory

"Go get another shot and a few more booster. You're so smart you know what is injected into you. You have the list of ingredients right in front of you on a piece of paper. Oh, you don't know? Trust the science and let them fill you up with whatever it is but it's not a Vax."

LOL! I love this one, a truly ubiquitous classic - @Glory, hate to put pin to balloon, but you have no idea what's in any branded drug you get, or in any food you purchase. You don't know the sources of any of those materials, their purity or impurity profiles. You don't know what's in the water you drink everyday.  I doubt you're a toxicologist, and if not, you have no idea of the import of any of those materials, and couldn't assess them anyway since you don't know the concentrations so you can't calculate a maximum dose.

And you can holler "it's not a vax" all day, it is a vaccine, and you're continually trumpeting your ignorance.

@mahgister

Are you reading comprehension challenged? You cite a crank, and then cite a number of folks who's articles you've read - or claim to. You ignore that *I* have defined Kennedy as a crank, that informs *MY* opinion of your position and predilection. You can agree not not at your whim, makes no difference.

You ignore that when one, such as yourself IMO, reads to validate, not to educate, the conclusions drawn from such "research" are totally suspect.

You cant emulate a petulant child in declaring "Your case is closed..." as though you have some say in the matter, but sorry to disabuse, you have no such superpower.

@jayctoy 

"weakening of God given perfect natural immune system"

Well that's a load off my mind! Here I have been laboring under the assumption that humans have been dying from pathogens since time immemorial.

Had only those middle-ages millions in Europe known this when Yrsinnia pestis came a'knocking I reckon they'd all still be alive!  Learn somethin new every day.

@isochronism 

"Although, it is agreed upon by experts that have anylized many sealed bottles that this IS NOT a "vaccine" and holds no therapeutic benefits."

Really? Please cite some of those "expert" reports.  First, you cannont "analyze" an mRNA vaccine to determine it's "not a vaccine".  Period. You could sequence the RNA once you extract it from the vehicle matrix, but that would not tell you it immunogenicity/. You would have to perform In Vivo and In Vitro studies to determine whether it shows immunogenicity or not. I'd be more than happy to look at any of such studies you'd care to provide.

Had you read my last post you would know that it is fully recognized (by the fact permeable population) that vaccines are not therapeutic agents.They are not claimed as such, that is why they are not classed as drugs. This is not a semantic quibble, it determines the entire body of applicale laws, it determines the type and duration of tox, pre-clinical, and clinical data required to demonstrate safety and efficacy. It's a totally different regulatory framework that applies. Now I have seen the ignorant claim that it can't be a vaccine because there's no virus in it. That's simply stupid. IF there were ANY detectable viral particles in the mRNA vaccines they would be considered as contaminants, and the product would be discarded as adulterated.

Clearly your mind is made up, and nothing that doesn't agree with what you want to believe has relevance to you. Blinders are a poor way to explore the world, IMO, but its your choice. Hopefully you neither get COVID, nor spread it to others.

Good luck all, and Happy Holidays! Turkey day is almost upon us.

@jayctoy 

Vaccines are biological agents that elicit an immune response to a specific antigen derived from an infectious disease-causing pathogen. That's it. The agreed definition for nigh on 200 years. Other properties of any specific vaccine are irrelevant with respect to whether it's a vaccine or not.

The spike protein can cross into the bloodstream, although most appears to end up in the lymph system. There are Rat studies that show the vaccine produced S1 protein crosses the blood brain barrier, but follow-on studies In Vitro using cultured endothelial human cells showed it did not. So it may, it may not, we can't experiment on a bunch of humans to find out. There is significant data showing that SARS-CoV-2 can cause brain inflammation, and it's been hypothesized that the spike protein may be involved, but I have not seen definitive data on that. Not saying there's none out there.

The lipid 'bubble' encapsulating the mRNA is highly unstable - hence the onerous storage requirements - and once liberated, the mRNA is quite unstable as well. So spike protein not phagocytized by lmphocytes triggered by it, is unlikely to have much residence time in the body anyway.  My hunch - and it is not based on reviewed data - is that folks that would have a massive response to the vaccine (such as you and other seem to fear) would be those likeliest to die from a COVID infection. Making the vaccine an even better risk.

But no drug or vaccine is without some risk, and some side effects. It's a risk/benefit calculation. The selfish consider only themselve in that calc, people that aren't, consider their fellow citizens as well.

@tweak1 

"If you think the virus is real and transmissible ...

Do your own research for: has ANY virus EVER been isolated so that a vaccine can be developed"

Not to disappoint, but I don't need to research. The answer is YES - three species of human poliovirus were isolated and used for production the Salk inactivated virus vaccine that eradicated Polio from the US, and almost eradicated it world wide.  Then of course, the Vaccina virus, same family (Orthopoxviruses) as the Variola virus that caused - past tense note - Smallpox. That vaccine eradicated Smallpox worldwide. I was part of the Acambis smallpox vaccine project for the US government after the 9/11 attack with subsequent smallpox scare.

Just to name the most obvious and high profile cases.  You do yourself no credibility favors when you pose such ludicrously obvious questions as though there's some apochyphal and malign informational trove known only to some awakened few.

As for the rest...well, can't say it more accurately than Nonoise did. BS, on a stick.

@mahgister 

I assume you're referring to "Why do Covid-19 mass vaccination campaigns promote dominance of selective immune escape variants?"?

This is a *theory* propounded by some, rejected by most IME. He proposes a mechanism for selective pressure, without evidence of such adaptation taking place an a human population. This also presupposes that the "natural" immunological response would not be subject to the same selective pressures, which is unlikely to be true at all.  His theory is an absolute fact when dealing with therapeutic agents (such as antibiotics, and we have all seen) but that model does not hold if the "natural" response functionally indistinguishable from the vaccine mediated response. In fact, one and postulate that drastically increase number of passages of the virus itself, through and infected patient, and the amount of time that person is infective, would place greater selective pressures in that more of the viral types resistant to the immune response would be generated and released. Thus the assumed amplification may work the opposite of his theory.

The eradication of polio and smallpox due to massive vaccination programs provide data directly controverting his restistance amplification theory. I choose to rely on the empirical data.

Pardon the typos...