2. speakers
  3. 174352-154490

Underpowered?

Hi guys.  Newbie here asking for advice. 

I recently purchased a pair of B&W 702 Signature (8Ω, 30-300W, 90 dB) to replace my old faithful 683s (8Ω, 20-200W, 90 dB).  I am running them with a McIntosh MA252 (100W into 8Ω, 160W into 4Ω).  I purchased them thinking they would complete my end-game system.  However, my excitement turned into disappointment when I realized the lows were somewhat lacking.  For all their faults, the 683s had a great dynamic low kick (no sub) that I was looking to take one step further.  Unsurprisingly, the highs and mids on the 702s were indeed more detailed and separation was clearer, but I couldn't get over the uninspiring lows.  I found myself listening at higher volumes chasing for that bass oomph.  Neither playing with the EQ at the source nor the amp was satisfactory.  So, I did the research that perhaps I should've done before purchasing the 702s and found out they are quite power hungry despite the specs being similar to the 683s.  I emailed B&W and McIntosh and they agreed the amp is probably underpowered for the 702s.  B&W described the sound of an underpowered speaker as one lacking low response and details, which is spot on. McIntosh suggested the MA352 (200W into 8Ω, 320W into 4Ω).

Of note, I love the MA252 and really wish there was a way to make this work.  I don't need a DAC/streamer/etc so I'm happy to put all my money on better sound vs tech features.  But I also think the speakers sound amazing even when somewhat underpowered and I'm considering upgrading to a MA352, Michi X3, Hegel 390.  Another option could be to get a sub? But I feel that would defeat the purpose of having a 3way standing speaker and then I might as well get a pair of bookshelf speakers (805 D4s, LS50 metas?).

So what do you guys think? Is it normal for a speaker that's rated 30-300W to be underpowered with a 100W amp?? What would you do:

  1. Sell the 702s and look for a better match for my MA252?

  2. Upgrade the MA252 (MA352? Michi X3? NAD 33?)?

  3. Get a subwoofer?

I would really appreciate your thoughts/advice!

dridel
musicaddict
370 posts
 

I do not think an amp change will give you the bass you seem to desire. An amp can provide changes but not dramatic. I doubt the room will be enough either.

I hope you have tried a sub or two instead, far better bang for the buck if you want to keep those speakers. (And turning them up loud to get bass at the expense of a piercing treble doesn't count as success; like you do understand).

As folks have pointed out it's in their design and measurements, so don't worry, add a sub or two (or four/dba) and enjoy!

mattuk
5 posts
 

Old thread, I know.  But of interest to me as I've just paid for a pair of 702 s2 as an upgrade to my 683's.  I also love their sound and at £1900 for a pair of new (open box) s2's it felt too good an opportunity to miss.

 

I've bought them blind (I know, first time I haven't auditioned a piece of hifi kit) and it's part of a longer term upgrade. I've got 125w at 8 ohms / 200w at 4 ohms on my Roksan Integrated amp.

 

We'll see how it plays out, but I'm thinking of a power amp in future anyhow. 

dridel OP
15 posts
 

@mattuk How did your amp do with the 702s2? I'm still enjoying my setup. FWIW I ended up getting the S5SHO and it was worth it.

mattuk
5 posts
 

The arrive on Friday (anticipation / post hi-fi buyers guilt).  Will update, but already looking at michi x3 / x5 upgrade... 

mattuk
5 posts
 

So I've been listening for a couple of days now, during running in.  I spent a lot of time prior to the 702's arriving listening to the 683's.  It may seem an obvious statement, however they are very different sounding speakers - the 702's are tighter, more precise and brighter, but they aren't yet as engaging as the 683's. 

But, as they loosen up they reveal more of the bowers sound.  In the same position as the 683 (cabinets exactly the same size), they give plenty of bass - but it is a lot tighter.  Rage against the machine's "wake up" sounds immense, but 'flash' by queen sounds light in the build up.  "Star 6 & 7 8 9" iby the orb is a reference track for me and it really shows the difference between the two floorstanders. 

Ultimately, as I expected, the speakers are showing the amp up.  On the bench the kandy is 137w @ 8 ohms and happy with driving at 4 ohms, but the speakers just deserve something a bit better, which I think will balance the sound too. I will line up some auditions for the michi Integrated amps.  I might have a play biamping with an heirloom. A&R SA200 power amp. 

 

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