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Tweeter type and brightness

I presently own Martin Logan Odysseys that I purchased new in 2005. I've enjoyed them very much but I'm having to replace the power supply board in one of them as I did in the other one about 5 yrs ago and I'm thinking that it may be time to look into speakers using more recent technology.

I auditioned several new sets at Sound Advice including the Monitor Audio silver 2, 6, 8 and 10 plus a small pair of ML's. I thought all of them were very good. Additionally, I bought a pair of Jamo Concert Eights several months ago that were fantastic for my type music which is mostly solo guitar. I regret selling them but at least I learned how good quality bookshelf speakers can be.

Anyway, I've read in several posts that metal dome tweeters have a tendency toward exaggerated or tinny brightness which can be very uncomfortable for me because of a hearing issue that I have. I want to avoid this and am asking for advice regarding this experience of others and what tweeter construction, if any, is generally best to avoid what I call screechiness.

I've been told that the technologies that best avoid this are ribbon tweeters or domes of some softer material than the various metals used in many of them. In one of the forums here on Audiogon this subject was discussed in some detail and at least several participants seemed to minimize the relationship between tweeter design and this problem. They suggested that more likely potential causes would be such things as room acoustics, interconnect quality, rake, crossover problems, etc.

I agree that each of these considerations could lend to the issue but I'm looking for a good starting point to at least minimize the contribution of the speaker design to this problem.

I've heard the gold series Monitor Audio speakers which do incorporate ribbons and they seem to work perfectly with my music but they, like the larger new ESL's are substantially outside my current budget limits. I'm currently using some borrowed temporary speakers while I'm waiting for the new circuit board so I can sell my Odysseys. In the meantime I would appreciate any advice I could use to help with an approach to selecting a speaker best suited to my needs. My upstream equipment includes Shanling solid state CD player, CAL DAC and Rogue Audio Sphinx 100W hybrid amp.
broadstone

Showing 3 responses by bifwynne

bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
Broadstone .... your question is reasonable but difficult to answer because there are so many variables involved. Ergo the various suggestions above.

What I'm about to say may be a bit heretical, but if you like your ML ESLs, why not fix them and keep them. I don't recall reading that you are experiencing compatibility issues with your MLs and your amp. And to start fiddling with separate components ... oiy. You may take one step forward and two steps back.

As to your concern about metal domed tweeters, I've read many posts that go both ways. Someone mentioned the Revel Salons and Studios. These speakers use beryllium dome tweeters. Same re the higher-end Focals, Paradigms and Ushers. Beryllium is a very light and brittle metal that has a higher resonant frequency than other types of metal tweeters, like aluminum and titanium.

But even these exotics can sound bad if there is system incompatibility with the gear and the room. That's why I suggested that if you're happy, consider sticking with what you have. Just a cheaper and easy alternative option to think about.

Cheers.
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
Broadstone -- my compliments on your sage approach. Another suggestion is contacting ML to see if they rehab their older gear.

I seem to recall reading that some ESL/planar companies refurbish their older products. I can't seem to recall the ESL companies that do this, but perhaps other folks will chime in. But I'm pretty sure Magnepan refurbishes its older planars.

Frankly, I see no reason to fix what ain't broke, especially if you're happy with its performance.

Cheers,
bifwynne
2,206 posts
 
Johnnyb53, I think the resonant point of beryllium dome tweeters is somewhat further out than most other metal domes tweets. My fronts are Paradigm Signature 8s (v3), which as I mentioned above use beryllium tweeters. My speakers are very fast and detailed, but not bright and harsh.

That's not to say that I didn't have configuration issues relating to amp/speaker compatibility. But I think I wrestled that bad boy down by using the 4 ohm taps on my new amp and moving the speakers around a little.

Interestingly, I think the reason the use of the 4 ohm taps calmed the S8s down had more to do with an impedance hump at the 2.2K Hz X-over point. I don't think tweeter ringing was at issue at all.

In fact, speaker impedance in the "power" range (say 30 Hz through 700 Hz) was 4 ohms. So ... using the amp's higher output impedance tap (8 ohms -- about 1 ohm)) flavored (for lack of a better term) the acoustic presentation by reducing output voltage in the power range by almost a full db and increased the output voltage by almost a full db in the upper midrange/low treble spectrum. The 2 db difference had the effect of brightening the acoustic presentation, which I found fatiguing.

So, by using the 4 ohm tap (output impedance about .55 ohms), output voltage regulation was tighter (about +/- .4 db) reducing the coloration by over 1 db. Ergo the speakers sound very sweet.

I'm not familiar with ring radiator tweeters. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

Cheers,
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