Tweaks, money pit or real value?

Thanks very much fleschler your posts are always interesting i must say...

just a precision about that :

The hallographs are necessary not as a diffuser but as a focusing device-the Legacy Focus speakers tend to be narrow in soundstage and imaging. The Hallographs permit adjustable wider seating with enhanced ambiance.

What you described is precisely the effect of my grid of Helmoltz diffusers which are also of different length and diameter and are analog in a way to quadratic diffuser but being open/semi-open tubes they can work anywhere in the room and not only on walls...This is very important ......They diffuse at some spot in a better way than at some other spot in the room, it is reason why a diffuser ,must be well located to make possible a better "focus" on the sound imaging and also more importantly an INCLUSION of the listener in the soundscape...This is called LEV/ASW factor ratio in psycho-acoustic...I have diffusers near my listening position and inside the speakers themselves and over them 😁😊...

i will never compared my modest system to your costly one, but like you said even a modest system can do miracles... The only difference, if there is one between us, is that for me it is acoustic and psycho acoustic control the main factors....Not the gear choice by itself alone....And acoustic MAY cost peanuts...I dont need bass trap in my 13 feet non ideal square room with one speakers at few inches of a corner... Is it a worst location than that ? All my acoutical devices are used also  to compensate or nullifiy the bad location of my speakers among others role ...I succeed and discover that some bad locations of the speakers can be taken care of and are only location difficult to play with acoustically and not absolutely bad ...if it is possible for me anybody can do it... 

I am not an acoustician at all , i only take a set of non stop listening experiments for a very long time in months each day in my room creating homemade necessary devices... 😁😊

 

Acoustic is the way for me...

My deepest respect to you...

Thanks for all your answers...

I do not say they are equal in results...

I only suggest that a room acoustic and devices dont need to be costly...

I know this why?

Because when i listen my 500 bucks system in my dedicated room i am sure that your system is superior to mine... I am not so stupid... 😁😊

My point is more subtle and difficult to admit for some but my system is not so far away from yours than what you think...I am in no way envious or frustrated...Acoustic is the key and it is my most important discovery in audio... 😁😊

If i can enjoy my system room way better than my 8 headphones now in my drawer for good this means something no?

And my point was not to say that my low cost Helmholtz diffusers are not so much behind your Hallograph than what you think , BECAUSE they work on the shear velocity of waves diffusion on some location and price tag and acoustic principle has nothing in common anyway. and price tag dont determine the results...

By the way i use no brand name costly "tweaks" i created most of my devices homemade and with a method... Some device give us something that nothing else will do...You cannot replace vibrations control under a speaker by replacing the speaker by a more costly one generally... For sure a 500,000 bucks speakers nay have vibrations controls included in his design...

Optimizing SMALL room acoustic is essential not a icing on a cake in most cases most of the time...

It is the relation between the system and the room who give us acoustical factor like "listener envelopment" and source width ratio LEV/ASW not the electronical design by itself alone...

And designing a room is more important than the price tag of the components..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Hallographs are superior to toilet paper roll Helmholtz diffusers and probably any typical Helmholtz diffuser. I needed them in my prior home which did not have a custom built listening room.

If I purchase Von Schweikert speakers, I probably won’t need them at all. Same with speaker HFTs.

Perhaps yes the sound quality will be so good you feel that way and you will perceive it so...

But buying ready made "tweaks" is not FINE TUNING A ROOM...

A tweak is not an acoustic method by itself.... Learning how to tune a room supposed a method...It is not buy and plug here...

The relation speakers/room ask for an acoustical optimization process that bear no relation with the design or price tag of a specific speakers... All speakers enter in a relation to the room in their own way and each specific room help and/or impede some emerging acoustical cues... Optimizing this relation ask for a fine tuning of the room that cannot be solved by a general ready made product alone even by many...

I called my grid of Helmholtz resonators and Helmholtz diffusers a "mechanical equalizer" why?

Because it modify the room pressure zone distribution to adapt the room to the specs and properties of the speakers FOR YOUR EARS which are also specific...

A small room acoustic is not an amphiteater room acoustic... This is very different room for different use...

Acoustic room treatment and mechanical control are always necessary save in a completely designed room by an acoustician for some specific speakers...but here the cost is stratospheric...A good acoustician here can use Helmholtz resonators in the wall and diffusers at some spot to help the room in his service to the chosen speakers...

There exist no miraculous speakers at any price who sound the same in ALL room....treated and non treated, controlled or not controlled... this is a common place fact...

 

I apologize if i seem rude....

My deepest respect to you

Very great choices it seems to me...Thanks for youre interesting post...

 

 

I will only add  for those who dont have money to do that like me, that it is possible for someone without money to do the same thing, or nearly approximate it, inspired by all this precise tweaks you just described...

Happily for sure, because we dont have all the luxury of this excess money......

34 SR HFT amount to near 2000 bucks...

2 pair of hallographs: 3000 bucks...

Add to that all others costly devices you described...And guess what is the cost?

😁😊

I dont doubt that these "tweaks" work at all...I know they work...

But it is possible to create a room with peanuts costs...

For example what the hallograph "form" teach us?

It teach us that modifying the shear velocity of waves on some pressure zone location we will enjoy a more "atmospherical" diffusion... This is TRUE...I created my own diffusers with Helmholtz method...

Then there exist simple means to do this at NO cost... Less esthetical though... 😊😊

It is the same thing for all other "tweaks" or "embeddings controls" which is the term i prefer to use or which i prefer to call them, to let in their sleep slumber the "snake oil" hunters or tool obsessed measuring groups...

😁😊

For a dedicated room, rejoice all "poor" audiophiles, i buld one at NO cost...Oufff 160,000 bucks... It work because if my sound is not the best there is in the world, i enjoy a sound quality with a 500 bucks system over the roof....

Read about acoustic and psycho-acoustic not about price tag brand name tweaks... But forget esthetic save if you are very crafty ....

For sure my post is adressed to the desesperate hopeless poor audiophiles....

😁😊

One thing is very important: the only luxury in audio is a dedicated room to conduct listening experiments and where tu put your devices, not the price tag of the system and the price tag of the "tweaks"...

An Helmholtz diffuser can be made with empty toilet paper rolls... 😁😊

 

Here is what I use: Two pairs of Hallographs to focus and gain ambiance with my typical box type dynamic speakers, 34 SR HFTs throughout the room and on speakers which adjust tonal balance and also disperse early reflections, boxed mounted and hanging Acoustic Fields foam absorption panels, SR blue outlet duplexes and three blue fuses on multiple amps, various types of footers, SR Mig Sx under one stereo amp, Stillpoints and one set of old Aurios under equipment with a Townshend seismic sink under a VPI TNT 6.

Stands and cabling are considered tweeks by some. The biggest tweek was building a custom high end audio listening room for $160,000.

 

Tweaks work well when they are used as tweaks. They are literally the icing on the cake, and for that approach to work (the icing to do its job), you need a darn good cake for starters. Icing will not do any good to an inedible cake...

 

I am pretty sure no costly "tweaks" can beat by itself alone a systematic method to do the mechanical, electrical and acoustical control of the system working embeddings in the house/room/system at low cost...

I know it because i did it...

And nothing will replace anything; vibrations3resonance  and high noise electrical floor and acoustic treatment and acoustic control are totally FOUR distinct problems to solve and the increase in S.Q. gained by solving each one of them separately  cannot be compensated even by all the other together sonically ...

And even "tweaks" at low cost like the Schumann generators or the ionization of the room which i added with success in my own room may appear to be AT FIRST  only " icing of the cake" but are in fact more than that: they add something completely unique to the sound quality, they are more than icing....I cannot eat my cake without them...

All that cost me peanuts, inspire yourself by LOOKING at costly tweaks, dont buy them, replicate them in your own way.... If i did it for many, then you can for some... I am not crafty at all...

I am a free thinker though....

😁😊

Absolutely my own experience and the same results here after my listening room experiments...

Thanks steakster...

- Optimal vs Nominal

Even though an audio system might be expensive, that doesn’t mean it is optimized. A well-set up system should readily demonstrate if a tweak is a step up, a step down or a lateral move. Most systems are nominal due to any number of factors. As long as the music is enjoyed, then all is copacetic.

- When you hear a truly optimized system, it’s an a-ha moment. It doesn’t sound excellent. It seduces you.

- Years ago, I lived near a professional audio reviewer. His room was phenomenal. One time over a weekend, we deconstructed his entire system - every tweak was removed. There were a lot. With all gone, the music became - just okay. It sounded like a very nice hifi. After dusting and cleaning, we rebuilt it. It was a lot of work, But, the magic returned. The music was mesmerizing. The effect was cumulative due to the aggregation of the tweaks.

- If somebody can’t hear the difference between two different designs of power cords, then that is an indicator that something is amiss.

yes...

Are you a cyclist?

No tweaks will replace a method to adress embbedings control in the three working dimensions for any audio system : mechanical (vibrations/resonance control) electrical (noise floor level of the house and EMI and RFI ) and especially acoustical ( passive acoustic treatment+mechanical Helmholtz control)...

That being said some "tweaks" like Schumann generators (S.G.) and ionizers add something no other device will add to the acoustic impression, but the level of audible improvement will be function of your acoustic room quality to begin with ... Some will hear no improvement and no change, not because there exist none but because their system is too noisy and their room untreated and uncontrolled... the same people will laugh at "tweakers"....

No one must begin embeddings controls with "tweaks" even surprizing one like S.G. or ionizers...

ACOUSTIC is most important  key.... Nothing else....

Listening a speakers/room relation has nothing to do with cycling analogy...

I honestly can’t figure out why people fall for this stuff. my other hobby is cycling. We don’t have these kinds of products in cycling. The product either works or it doesn’t. There’s no in between.

Why not experiment yourself and created your own devices at low cost inspired by others journey?

 

If i could anybody could....

Most gear upgrade move and no tweaks addition  will compete with acoustic treatment but especially with acoustic mechanical control with Helmhotz method...

Then before eupgrading there is plenty of thing to do if what we own is relatively good to begin with for sure...