24bitbob
Thanks
I went around the XP sound issue by using J River Media Player... and an ASIO driver.
The sound using the above is night and day diff! JR makes the needed changes to the pc audio system during it's install... Whoa! Adding the ASIO driver circumvents the sound mixer altogether, in windows.
My laptop uses Vista... but I've not yet run it into my audio system... I'm awaiting the completion of my HT/listening room first... and deciding upon which way to go with what NAS DRIVE, and how large.
Effectively, no sound card is being used in my setup... and I'm not getting any dropouts while playing files.
|
Mr_bill
Here's my understanding of the ASIO driver.
The big deal with Windows production of Audiophile sound quality is getting around the Windows Sound Mixer inherent to the operating system. The ASIO driver circumvents the mixer by sidestepping it.
I'm using a USB sound card of sorts, A Bel Canto DAC 3. it connects via USB in my rig for listening sessions… and the integrated sound chip set for normal use of the PC as a prerequisite..
Drivers are used to allow software to talk to hardware.
Windows will put/place A driver for it by default when it sees the DAC.
Try the Windows default driver for yourself. or others, if you like, and as well, the USB FOR ALL German offering... the latter is a trial which will beep at 30 second intervals... until you buy it and enter the unlock code. There are some freee one’s out there too, though so many notes of those using both, pointed to the ASIO for all as the better one, so I just bought it and didn’t spend a lot of time trying out this one and that one and doing all the reconfiguring I presumed would be needed..
The main thing about the ASIO driver is the lessening or prevention of latency. Dropouts. Skipping. The JR software is doing the decoding and providing the improvement to the sound… the ASIO driver is just the conduit or carrier of that to the DAC/soundcard.
You can download it here:
http://www.asio4all.com/
..and try it for free.
J RIVER
J River has some Playback options. Included in there is the ability to use differing output devices, Windows, your sound card, an ASIO (Auto sound input output) driver. A couple minor means to configure it are directly under the playback device selection, giving you some more flexibility with the ASIO Driver. Other mo' betta means of configuring it can be done with other sound recording softtware who also use ASIO's. Those configurations are ‘global’ and not local settings so whatever changes are made in there, will affect it when using it with say, J River. It’s a little obtuse IMO, but if you wish to tinker around….??
ONce the ASIO (trial or not) has been downloaded, and JR restarted, it will see the new ASIO driver. Using the above path in JR, select it as the default output device.
One other step maybe necessary, and that involves going to the Windows Control panel, > sounds & audio devices > Audio tab > select the (once intergrated and energized) USBAUDIO DEVICE. vIOLIN! aLL IS WELL….OR should be at that time. A restart of the pc usually isn’t needed. Sometimes a restart of JR is though.
Checking the box labeled ‘use only default devices’ will make this a more permanent thing, and to use some other output sorce for other instances, the box will need to be unchecked.
play whatever... the ONLY issue I've yet to resolve is playing back some older MP3 files. The "ASIO for all" driver is ONLY 16/44.1K Hz. And I may have done them at a higher sampling rate.
Either the ASIO driver, and definitely via USB to the DAC3, won't deal with higher word lengths, or sampling rates.
Given the USBB through put of the DAC 3 is exactly the same, well, fine. Were I to desire to begin using 24/96 or 24/192, I believe I’d need a sound card or DAC that supports it… as I’m not sure if it’s the ASIO limitations in truth, or merely the limitations of my present PCs audio device.
The bottom line is simple… this path allows me to emulate almost completely the audio quality I get using my SCD xa777 + BC DAC3… yet I can now stop running back and forth from the listening room to the electronics room to flip discs. I’m a great ‘taker outer’ but I’m not a great “putter backer”… and this way also allows all the ancillary bennys. Tons of whatever music, a few keystrokes away.
Lastly, as you’ll see at the above website, this driver works with loads of other sound cards… PCI or USB, if you wish to use another interface than the USB with your DAC.
Itunes however still sounds lackluster as I’ve not been able to find out how to get iTunes to see that driver. Though I think it’s not too hard probably. So I still use iTunes to rip and sort, then import to JR and play. JR also has an iTunes GUI/Skin so it can look nearly identical to iTunes if you wish.
Hope that helps. |
Thanks.
Hmmm... No success with ASIO FA huh?
I used the JR Media center... my visual adaptive software just about eliminates the use of the video portions of the MC12 but the audio w/wo the ASIO driver was night and day different, to the gooder.
Had some troubles configuring things and getting used to JR MC 12, but in the end I'm extremely happy with the output and especially the fact it plays the 'purchased' protected files from iTunes too.
Now I'm wondering mostly about USB cables.
Anyone tried different USB cables and find any in particular better than Wal Marts, Radio Shack, or Belken?
Sure would like to know about this USB CABLE bit.
|
Gee... one would think with all the PC audio supporters around here that notes on how or what is helping their PC audio systems along should be an easy enough question....
Maybe PC-o-philes don't tweak PC audio like audiophiles do? |
Thanks for the info on the USB cable.
I used the V-pods for a while too. I've found the Bright Star isonodes to be better, improving the focus and impact, with less blunting of the leading edge of the notes. In other words, a bouncier presentation... more jump factor perhaps. I think they look better too. I use them under my USB drive, monitor speakers, and DAC. |
I'm not too fond of the J River support forums, but if you are willing to dig a bit, your questions and the answers are likely there.
I'd not be too concerned about JR's install. it'll see what you have for your video and audio just like WMP, ItUNES, OR ANY OTHER media player would.
there's two JR players. Jukebox & Media Center 12. Jukebox is free 100%. Media Center 12 has a 30 day trial. Media Center can play ALL media files. Jukebox only plays audio files. MC plays protected, WMA, iTunes, etc.
I suspect yet do not indeed know, that JR MC (what I use on my XP Pro), alters the path for music playback apart from the Sound Mixer inherent to Windows OS AUDIO playback.
What I do know, is with as crapy a sound card as one can have, the onboard audio became immensely better with no other changes and doing playback simply through my desktop Altec Lansing 2.1 junkie speakers.
gaining a better USB DAC (or in essence, a diff Sound card), playback via a higher res system was again improved.
As I had no ASIO (audio stream input output) driver, I added one of them too... ASIO for all... together, the sound is rivaling my main CDP source... albeit not surpassing it. the immediacy or avialability of the greater variety and access of the tracks on my PCs USB HDD offsets the lessend presentation...
The other installed software media players I have on board werent' affected. I never use WMA... but do use and have installed, ituens, Power DVD, EAC, VLC, & Winamp. so it's doubtful something bad or irreversable will happen if you install JR.
In fact I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW IF GREATER GAIN COULD BE HAD USING JR WITH A BETTER ONBOARD CARD, AND i SUSPECT IT WOULD... BETTER THAN WITH usb dac? THAT'S A DIFFERENT TEST.
Good luck, don't worry.
|
installing either jukebox or MC won't affect the other sofgtware on your PC. The ONLY issue may be that YOU allow it to be the sole or default player on the PC via file associations. That can be changed too. Later. In the options menu under tools, in JR.
yOU CAN TELL THE PC TOO. bY OPENING UP eXPLORER AND FINDING THE FILES YOU WISH WHICHEVER PROGRAM TO OPEN, RIGHT CLICK ON ONE OF THEM, AND CHOOSE THE 'OPEN WITH' SELECTION, AND THEN THE ACTUAL PROGRAM YOU LIKE.
Sometimes you have to do both. I had no such porblem except with CD playback... and that took just a few seconds to fix by following the above steps.
This way with XP will ensure there are no conflicts... create another user account. Give it admin rights. Log onto that account. Download whatever software there using this new account. Windows should not allow that newly made accounts setting s to conflict with other normally used account settings... and vice versa.
I noticed no diff sonically using either Jukebox or MC 12. I chose MC 12 ONLY because it played my protected files as well. Jukebox would play them now and then but not always.
it might have needed to be reinstalled... I don't know. But MC12 did so that was fine by me. I don't even use the MC12's video facets at all as it conflicts with my adaptive software... or the other way 'round. But somethings going on that prevents it from showing DVDs, etc. other apps do the same thing too, so I know it's not just JR but my needed accessibility program.
jukebox will play FLAC too. winamp will as well with the right plug in. I'm sure there are others too. |
it does provide a startling sonic improvement for sure, and it doesn't seem to matter which file format either... mp3, WAVE, AAC, etc. |
well Bill there's a catch with the BC D3 using USB... OR any of the other interfaces as well... It all has to be PCM info. via USB it has to be 16/44.1K. Period.
... and it's only 24/96 at best anyhow. No matter what.
So I use the ASIO for All driver as it does add to the overall.
Feeding the BC D3 24/96 would necessitate a PCI or USB SOUND CARD... kind of defeating the USB slot/aspect entirely.
In spite of the limitations, it's a mighty close call between the pc + D3 via USB, and the D3 + xa777 es. Mighty close. Definitely distictive diffs, one to the other, but I can sure live with things either way. CDP or PC.
|
Bill
"I wonder if it is better to have JRiver upsample or just
pass straight 16/44 to BC Dac 3 for the upsampling?"
Well after making some changes in the ouput device, and altering the output settings to 24/96, just to see... there is a definite change to the sound and the sound field... over the PC playback system.
I'll need a card which outputs those number via balanced or coaxial to employ the BC D3.... Got any suggestions on a card that won't break the bank and has that type of interface?
there was more articulation, and a larger field although some elements of the presentation were set back further into it. Overall, very pleasant however. Indeed.
|
I have been playing with J River and I see in playback there are two options - Direct Sound and ASIO.
Is this the same ASIO as the ASIO4ALL download or is it different and should I still do the download of ASIO4ALL?
Good question. In the ASIO settings there is a selection which enables a notification window to pop up when starting the ASIO… check it and see what the version is… the current version of ASIO for all is 2.8.7
…of course if you’ve already downloaded and installed it… juset try it… if it beeps ever 30 sceonds that’s it.
I also see the option in J RIver with these two playback options to set to output 16 or 24 bit or 44 or 96khz?
Any thoughts on what settings work better with your BC DAc 3 or just leave it as 16/44 because the USB won't support it anyway. I see that
Right. I leave it at the 16/44.1
Empirical Audio Off Ramp or Freeway might support this, but if you have a great upsampling dac, does this become a moot point?
Ask Emperical that one.
I have a theory for life… if you like what you are getting, keep doing what you’re doing… If you don’t, change what you can.
I’m pretty happy with what I’m getting right now. Going to another type DAC just for the sake of change isn’t likely to happen ‘round here for a while.
The only changes that interest me now are some tweaks… here or there… and maybe new power cords for my amps… but in all, just minor stuff IMO. As I’m pretty OK with what’s going on here now.
One item I’m considering now is another sound card… just to see if there is a diff from changing or up sampling the signal for true with HDD Files.
|
