Turrntable With or Without Suspension?

I've had 3 tt's: a Technics (don't remember the model), a Rotel RP-900 and a VPI Hw19 MK III. The VPI is suspended and bounces like a trampoline. Fortunately my kids are grown, but I still have problems if I forget or a friend comes by and I forget to warn him. The Technics also had problems with footfall, if possible even worse than the VPI. The one that I had the least problem with, even when the kids were bouncing around, was the Rotel. The RP-900 is a Rega Planar 2 with springs in place of the feet. I'm not saying it didn't bounce, just that it bounced the least of the three.

I had a Thorens that jumped every time someone walked nearby or closed a door downstairs. I solved the problem with some 4" thick foam rubber that had been part of a camping mattress pad. I cut a 16" square of the foam and put a 16" square 1/4" thick ceramic tile on top of the foam and then the Thorens on to of that. It was relatively dense foam. This did the trick and footfalls and door closures were not a problem any more.

Ultimately I got an unsuspended Rega TT got rid of the foam and ceramic tile. The Rega sits on a table top in the same location without any problem from footfalls or door closures.

Paul Green

Go with a B&O - there's a nice TX-2 with MMC3 cartridge on Audiogon right now for approx. $400. They are impervious to outside vibrations and sound pretty darn good when mated with one of their top of the line cartridges. I currently have a BG5500 with MMC1, MMC2, and MMC3 cartridges - the MMC1 and MMC2 sound fantastic and the MMC3 ain't too shabby, either...

-rw-

We had a suspended thorens 166. Tried a DIY high-mass stand. And just like some of the other responses any time someone tip-toed around the living room or even shut the front door the stylus would skip. It was pretty bad until we got the wall shelf. But even with the wall mount you could stll hear outside rumble (traffic, passing trains, airplanes) through the table. You have to be careful where you put the table.

If you have a crawl space under the house, you might be able to prop-up or otherwise support the floor just below the turntable stand to help damp the footfalls somewhat. Rather than let that area be super springy.

Jrthestar:

I got to thinking more about your situation as I was walking to my car last night.

If the table really needs to be in that cabinet, just make the cabinet more sturdy.

(1) Make sure no wobble on the feet. If wobble, fix with shims.
(2) Make sure no wobble in the construction. If so, some wood glue or some strategically placed screws can strengthen the construction.
(3) No wobble on the shelf. This can be fixed simply by adding weight to the shelf, in the form of bricks or whatnot, that will more solidly connect the shelf to the cabinet.
(4) Fix the top of the cabinet to the wall on both ends.
(5) For the turntable, consider making a "4-Vibrapod sandwich" underneath it. Some people pooh-pooh Vibrapods, I have found them to be good for the cost. Just take a while to weigh exactly what they will be supporting, and order the correct rating. http://www.vibrapod.com/

Good luck and enjoy.

Ngeorge:

My table's a Russco Cuemaster broadcast turntable. Popular in 70s and 80s especially on west coast, which is where it was built (Fresno/Clovis, California, just a drive down I-5 from where I was born and raised). The design matches other broadcast tables like Gray Research, etc. Built like a tank.

Being a large idler wheel table with a powerful motor, it wants to be mounted in a massive stand, hence the monolithic plinth I built. More info on my table project here:
http://www.stat.ucla.edu/~erickson/projects/cuemaster/

It does not cast "ink black" backgrounds, but its virtues more than make up for that, in my book at least.

I second the B&O suggestion. Many years ago I had the same problem but, instead of foot falls, it was trucks on the road outside that were causing the problems. The Technics couldn't handle it so I went to a B&O radial tracker. (I think it was a Beogram 5000?) I don't know how they did it but you could slap that thing around all day long and it wouldn't skip or send footsteps through the speakers. Mid-Fi but, a used one should be well within your price range. First you might want to check on availability of cartridges as the low mass tone arm could only accept special B&O units.

I used to have an HK/Rabco ST-8 on top of a shaky wood cabinet, all on a suspended wood floor. The TT had a rudimentary suspension (putting it kindly) and would skip any time someone moved a teacup, never mind kids bouncing around.

Big fat Sorbogel footers helped some but it was still pretty bad. If you wanted to walk while a record was playing you truly had to baby your way around. One normal step and it would skip.

As the others have said, the scenario you describe seems basically untenable. Something has to give.

I remember a friend's Bang and Olfsen's (did I spell that right?) belt drive suspension table from around 1979 or 1980(forgot the model, not the targential tracking model) that was unbelievably unsuseptable to vibration. Of course this was more of a mid-fi product.

I agree with the prevailing sentiment here. A suspended table is probably not going to solve your problems as you describe them. I have what I consider to be one of the best suspended tables available but I know that if the whole foundation that it is sitting on is moving all the suspension in the world will not fix that. That is not what a suspended table is designed for.

I'll pose a different solution. Mass. No, not the state. A very heavy, sturdy, massive stand with a non-suspended table. You may have to DIY a stand like this, unless you can afford one, and then couple the table to it with good spikes.

Or, you have to move to another room that is off-limits to the rough housers.

Don't care, you NEED a wall mount. Or one of those $15k vibration/earthquake resistant lab supports. I can't think of the turntable that will accomodate what you are attempting to do. I do not think your list of contraints is realistic.

Technics 1200 is the closest you'll get to what you want. However, it needs lateral damping. Why don't you put spikes on the wooden cabinet? That would be a first step to getting everything moving in unison...

Larkyparka,

Sorry to deviate from the original post, but, man - WHAT is your turntable?

Regards,
George

If the shelf that the turntable sits on moves to the degree that you describe, sorry, hthere isn't a turntable in the world that will work.

Go digital.

Something as rational as a wall mount is impossible.The turntable has to live out it's life sitting on a shelf inside a large wooden cabinet which seems to wobble when the ceiling fan is turned on.

So, do you know of a turntable with a good suspension?

Jeff is right, a turntable with suspension is not designed to reject the type of problems you get from bouncy floors. Wall mount is the way to go.

Wall mounts also give you a built-in height advantage over the young'ns.

My wall shelf (see photo below) uses two of the heavy duty brackets you can get from most hardware stores. The brackets need to have that triangular brace. The invariably come in white, but you could easily Krylon to taste.

Mine happily bears quite a lot of weight.
http://www.stat.ucla.edu/~erickson/projects/cuemaster/cuemaster.jpg

The caps lock on the title was bad enough.. but "yous"?

Anyway, you'll need to de-couple the turntable from the floor so the stylus doesn't end up dancing all over your cherished vinyl when the troops come marching through your listening room. Look into a wall-mounted turntable stand from the likes of Target (or a competing brand). Regards, Jeff