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Turntable upgrade advice

I've requested advice on where to upgrade my system before but have decided the biggest improvement would be in improving either my speakers or turntable or both.

Current system is:

LSA 1 Statement monitors

Rhythmik E15HP subs x 2

Clearaudio Concept w/ Concept MC cart

NuPrime DAC10 as preamp and DAC

Eastern Electric Minimax phono pre w/ NOS tubes

Emerald Physics 100.2SE power amp

Clearday Double Shotgun speaker cables

Audio Art IC3SE interconnects


The plan is to keep the Concept MC cart but sell the turntable. I really don't want to go above $3000 and would prefer to buy from a dealer whether it be online or brick and mortar. I'd prefer a deck w/ an arm as I've really only done plug and play solutions up to this point. Some current options would be:

Nottingham Space Deck 294 w/ Nottingham arm (recent production trade-in to dealer) - heard good things about the table but many comments about how the arm isn't as good. All the recommendations are for arms in the $2000 plus range. I can demo this at a dealer, so that's a big plus. However, not any recent reviews. The dealer also carries Michelle and Well-Tempered, would love to her the Gyrodec SE and the Amadeus GTA though both of these would be out of my price range new.

Pro-Ject RPM 10.1 or 10 Carbon (demo or pre-owned) - seem to come up frequently at online retailers. Seem to go in the $2000 range and reviews are very positive.

VPI Prime (demo or pre-owned) - the price hike bothered me but the demo prices are significantly lower and demo models seem commonly available. The reviews of this table are insanely positive across the board, not sure whether to take them with a grain of salt.

Gem Dandy Super12 Polytable - $3000 new by George Merrill. If I had the money I'd probably get a REAL and I've never seen the Super12 come up used. No official reviews of the Super12 version yet. The reviews of the standard polytable mention beautiful soundstaging and midrange but say that the low end is a little lacking which is a concern for me. I would hope that the Super12 would fix that.

Clearaudio Performance DC w/ Clarify or Satisfy arm - (used) This would be the most obvious choice as an upgrade from the Concept, better deck and better arm. Also, the used price is easier on the wallet. However, I read a reviewer that reviewed each one after the other and preferred the VPI Prime. Also wonder how much of an improvement I'd really get moving up one deck in the line. Floor vibrations are not a problem in my room, concrete floors so not concerned w/ that aspect of the tonearm. The cart should be a perfect fit as well.

Avid Diva II SP - Reviews seem to suggest that to get the most out of this deck you need a higher end arm. Also you don't get many offered used by dealers.



Ok, so that's my list. Please keep reco's to those tables on the list whether good or bad. Any opinions?




joegator81

Showing 16 responses by joegator81

joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
I like trains
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
^
And that's what happens when you leave a page open at work :lol:. Just disregard 
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
101, 

the bass was definitely a concern with this table after reading some of the reviews. I think fremer said it was a little limited (the standard poly w/ 750D arm). Is it the super12 upgrades that improve the low end or are you hearing better results in your system than he was in his? 

That being said, he still gave it a class B which is impressive considering the company, assuming the super12 might make class A? 
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
Thanks for all the recos. I'd love to hear all of these. The Notty is really the only possibility unless I can find some local dealers with demos or used decks. Don't think there is any way to demo the Gen Dandy Super 12, however it gets nothing but love in the forums. 
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
Yes jaf I am asking for recommendations and one of the tables I'm looking at is the Nottingham 294
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
Adding the kuzma stabi s to the list. Any opinions? 
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
The room is large but is as well treated as it can get - wall traps, corner traps, curtains, heavy rug. Not too dead, not too lively. Didn't mention it because there's not much else to do. The room sounds great. 
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
I ended up with the Notts 294. It was a one year old trade in to hwdsound, the original owner traded up to a higher model. So far I am very very happy with my decision, there is an obvious improvement over the very good clearaudio concept. My concept MC works beautifully with the 12" notts arm. 

Also, this table is built like a tank and I love the hands on stop/start of the platter. 
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 

fjn04,

yeh, I know its a problem for some people but the turn is so smooth that it allows you to really feel the quality and very fine tolerances to which this table was made.

joegator81 OP
108 posts
 

inna,

I have the original Nottingham oil and I'm sure I could get more form hwdsound. They too said approx. every year. I'm keeping an eye out for the boston audio mat as it seemed to come up quite a bit in my research of these tables. Seems they aren't being made any more and there is only one dealer/distributor that has what is left of them for $250. Is that a fair price?

joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
All that being said and as much as I like the clearaudio concept MC cart I'm thinking of upgrades (of course). My immediate thoughts went to the ortofon cadenza bronze (the tonal descriptions are right up my alley) or the kiseki blue NS (recommended by the hwdsound). Both should work fine w/ the arm. I won't be able to upgrade immediately and I'm also thinking of speaker and amp upgrades in the future (low power tube amp and something efficient like Tekton or used Audio Note??? or Rogue ST100 or NuPrime ST10 and something from philharmonicaudio, bmr or phil 3's possibly???). This hobby never ends...
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
Ok, thanks for the info. I haven't messed with the antiskate, the dealer setup the cart but the tail up VTA didn't work at all in my system, sounded damn good in theirs though w/ 6 ground tube mono blocks and 20 grand speakers. I'm still fine tuning the VTA but if it's not perfect it's close. 
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
Do you use the head shell, the arm tube or the cartridge body to determine level with the ace space arm? I'm having a harder time eye balling it, the shape of the arm appears to taper from wider to thinner as it reaches the head shell
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
Inna, how big of a difference does the boston mat make in your opinion? 
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
Ok, I've been just guestimating by looking at the head shell and also listening. 

I'll have to try that mat, the dealer was a bit of a non believer about any tweaking (somewhat refreshing) but it doesn't really point you to any avenues you might want to explore first. He did say that maple dulls the sound of the table and do not use a clamp under any circumstances. I'm not sure my inner child can resist trying though
joegator81 OP
108 posts
 
I picked up a Boston audio mat 1 off eBay for about $45 less than what the 1 remaining dealer is selling them for new. 

Im a skeptic with tweaks, apart from proper vibration isolation. The first record I played showed obvious improvement in micro detail and that continued with every record I played. Space between instruments improved and the stage was more stable and assured. Why is that? There was an obvious decrease in low end bloat that was fairly subtle but easily masking details through the audio band and meshing everything into a blur instead of clearly separated instruments forming a greater whole. 

On Dean Peers Airborne there are delayed bass lines that echo outside of the speakers. These were so much more detailed and easily heard. 

Alice In Chains unplugged, you can hear the individual strings within the chord so much more clearly where before it sounded like the bass on the acoustic guitar amp was turned up over the treble. The bass guitar lines are cleaner and the second acoustic guitar on the left side of the stage stands out much more easily after joining in on the song nutshell. 

On yello's 30000 days from Toy, there was an obvious reduction in low end bloat. This a bass heavy track and the spoken word vocals are very rich. All of this is cleaned up with sacrificing extension. 

Best of all, the essential tone of the table, arm, and cart remained the same but the detail has been greatly enhanced. I will never use the original foam mat again. 

Just let me say that before adding the mat1 I wasn't convinced there was that much improvement to be had via tweeks. I was wrong.
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