Halcro, interesting and thanks for sharing. What's very interesting is if you already had it set-up for accurate speed with the belt which I assume you did and by just installing the thread the variance.
Is the thread now longer then the belt size was? Not the same tention possibly?
Another tweak to try would be with your table is to use only two motors, have one motor on each side with separate threads but only one operational motor.
Are you not concerned with the thread maring the platter POD material? D mentioned someone else whom did this and it did such so this person has since moved onto using a 1/4 mylar belt and actually has the two motors set-up as mentioned above. Table being isolated separate from the motors.
I also have the thread on hand and my table being the TW BK with an almost all copper platter being mostly different than yours I'm concerned and have yet to do it, last thing I want to do is damage the looks of the platter.
On tables like the MS appear to be no issues due to the different plater material, gun metal or stainless. |
Dover,
is your platter the same POD material as the TW product?
Looking closer at my platter I can actually run the thread either on the POD material or COPPER.
Which is the harder material? anyone know. |
Hi Ikitch,
what the heck I was going to re-package that and sell it for say $$$$ ha! ha! and it actually works.
Hi Syntax,
nothing like going for the jugular, the TW product isn't as bad as you make it out to be. You might not like it personally and find faults which is okay but show me one table that is perfect? You won't be able to.
Even your own MS table has issues in it's original state, you have had to mod it to enjoy. Some MS owners have even changed from the original motor because they felt there was better performance to be had.
There will always be differences and that's life, to me I'm open minded to learning but in the end it's all about listening to music.
It gets real boring and it's just frankly so old now seeing the same replies, I think we all know you don't care for TW product but others do.
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Hi Albert,
when you say the MK3 is the only one tested with zero movement is that also making reference to the NVS you also own currently?
You did own the one NVS prior which you were listening to for a while and statrted hearing noises 'bearing" and sent it back to be fixed, you know what I mean.
I'm not trying to bring up past issues but just curious. |
Halcro, great info and thanks for sharing. What you have mentioned has left me scratching my head and always learning.
I know "D" is a little occupied presently but hop he will be able to assist adding to this.
What Tony has mentioned above is another perspective but in referrence to out of round pulley or platter doesn't make any sense to me in relation to yours specially reading what you have experienced.
You have three motors so why not do what I had mention earlier in one of my previous threads.
Place one motor off to the left using your thread and then place another motor off to the right using a separate thread attached but only have one motor working, this will do what Dover mentions above acting as a flywheel and balancing the platter.
When I had my AC3 and spun the platter with no pulley attached it would revolve many times but did slow down fairly quickly but with my Black Knight it's appears to be totally different. Spins allot easier initially and keeps spinning consistantly for a lot longer time prior to actual slowing down, to me this was very interesting in a positive way. |
There are a couple of different bearings used in this table, the latest version being different and older versions not upgradable. Well you could but you would also need a new platter.
The bearing in the BK has what looks like a ball bearing on the top. |
Hi Peterayer,
I had mentioned in the NVS thread I had tested two and both were off. Using the same TimeLine it was found one was too fast and another was too slow. |
Same model as yours which was also too fast ironically, the other table was a 30/2 and was too slow but when we put it on 45 too fast.
Owners were not very happy! specially when they thought it was set up correctly.
What do you do if you have no adjustments or worse the adjustments still don't allow you to get it accurate?
Not one table that I have tried has been spot on including my own with both speeds initially, some were really bad, mine wasn't but I learned that most could not be corrected either, mine was so I was lucky.
This TimeLine tool has assisted providing information that using other tools to set-up really to me are misleading but worse that manufactures are not paying close enough attention building their products.
So mine being off slightly, once I got it spot on I really could not hear nor feel the difference but on others I most defiantly could hear improvements if they were off badly so this is a postive tool to use and will be used in the future by me.
I recently went into a store whom I know the owner but will not mention the name and has some mighty exspensive tables and not one was spot on, he basically dismissed the use of the TimeLine saying they have all been set-up properly blah! blah!
I asked him if he did not mind to allow me to get one set-up using the TimeLine and then have a listen afterwards, it's not hard to do if there is a fairly accurate fine speed adjustment allowing such but the table also must be capable of doing such and this table was pretty darn close in the end but originally off pretty bad and this room we are talking big dollars.
I was told the rep was by the week prior and saying how sweet things sounded, humm!
When we were in the room he was tapping his foot and I said straight up are you for real, sorry but I'm not feeling it and this is a pce when I play at home my whole body gets into it and I just want to get up and boogie.
No way would it have me opening up my wallet but after using the TimeLine the sound was now locked in, the focus was way better, all arround just sounded different in a positive manner and just felt better if you know what I mean in a good way.
He came into the room and without even sitting down said he was already experiencing the difference so guess who will be getting a TimeLine to use.
Still did not leave me feeling the way I expressed above listening in my own place.
Personally I feel acurate table speed should be the basics of a table design, the foundation and then you go from there. If you can't get this right well ... I feel something is just wrong. |
Hi Lewm,
but using a mylar belt has it's own issues. Static, dust attracts to it, they only last so long before slippage occurs. You have to spend some time makeing them up all the time etc.
Sorry but I just want to listen to music and not be dealing with that.
I also tried on a Lenco, won't mention the seller but it was also off. I inquired about this and basically got back a answer that it's fairly close. hummm
I tried it on a "DD" SP10 MK2 and it was off, no way to correct like the MK3 offers speed adjustments so the owner has to send it in.
Albert I had asked you about your NVS, I'm sure you have checked it.
Can you tell us the results. |
Banquo363,
yes unfortuantly. I was told he is sending it to someone to correct which isn't suppose to be too hard. I read from someone else whom posted prior on the old NVS posting in relation to "DD" issues.
Look at this being a positive learning experience and not negtive, no need to be upset.
If your table is off then you can address such, if it is off slightly I would be shocked if you can hear such anyways.
End of the day it's all about listening to music. |
Hi Ct0517,
I really did not pay attention, the owner said it showed dead on and that's what I was going by and when the TimeLine was placed on showed ii was off. The spindle of his table is approx 20 from the wall.
Hi Lewm,
thanks for that info. in relation to the Lenco, don't you think it's strange that a well known source who is selling these replied by saying they are close and not as you did saying it can be set to be spot on? Personally I thought this to be odd, I was inquiring about purchasing from them to have another table and one of my questions. I asked are you familiar with the Sutherland TimeLine and if I were to use mine on your table would it show to be spot on for accuracy playing a record at both speaads? |
Hi Lewm,
Thanks for the reply but if I'm paying top dollar for one I don't feel that I should be the one worrying about this as it should be provided being spot on from the get go.
So really what you are saying is using a generic motor controller such as the Walker or SDS motor controller is to correct the actual speed incurracy.
So this makes sense to me that this well known seller is just being honest and saying they do not offer spot on speed accuracy and your info. above confirms such. |
Hi Lewm,
thanks for the reply back and clarification. I have nothing against Lenco tables and was actually looking at buying one as mentioned prior, really just conversation and learning.
That being said at the same time I was shocked when I had asked this seller what I felt was a pretty basic question and the reply back was they are not spot on.
Your reply in general has left me wondering, if you can set-up the speed as you suggest then why in the heck would you be using what you are? there must be a reason. |
Lewm, thx that's great info. |
Hiho, thats crazy and thanks for sharing. That's exactly what I enjoy about these forumns sharing such, I'm always open minded, learning something new and find tables alone there is allot to learn. |
Hi Dertonarm, how in the heck can a bearing for a table cost so much? |
Who ever suggested the NVS was better than any other tt was just full of hype, just more marketing blah! blah!
What I can't figure out is how does a table that list for $25k just a short while ago then jump up to $40 and now $45 or what ever.
That new wooden shipping crate must have added some serious sonics, possibly no more bent platter bearing :-)
Who in thier right mind designs and manufactures a table costing this much and then ships it with the platter attached, makes no sence.
I may have missed but has there been any mention of any owners using the TimeLine on it and the results.
Albert P, we know you have one so what are the results. |
Lewm, I don't see anything wrong with my posting above and in general just discussion and nothing else ment by it.
I thought these forums were for such, to share and learn.
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Hi Albert, thanks for the neutral responce.
It was Mike L's posting suggesting this NVS table was all this and that as you know dumping other tables that he had.
Here is just one posting
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1036349020&openflup&2334&4#2334
So when using the TimeLine on the NVS what are the results? |
Hi Albert,
thanks for the responce inrelation to the NVS using the TimeLine.
It's great you are providing other info. too but as you mention it's your take, prefference and obviously VERY subjective.
I have heard two SP10 MK3's to date now in my own set-up and over all preffered specific belt drive tables, "all belt drives aren't buit equal" in comparison but that's for another thread. |
