Turntable noobie...what advice do you have?


As this forum has corrupted me and I have decided to dive down the rabbit hole of LP's.  Usually I stream but I find the tactile experience of records appealing.  I have ordered a Pro-ject RPM-3 Carbon with Sumiko Amethyst cartridge and a Mobile Fidelity StudioPhono preamp. Oh, and a record brush.  I will be plugging them into my Voyager GAN amp and from there powering my LSA 20 Statement speakers.

I know there is always better equipment to get but I feel this gives a good starting point.  I picked up some new records but a half dozen does not a record collection make.  So I do plan on making my focus for the near future getting more and expanding my collection.  I listen to all kind of music so they will be many different genres.  I will be getting new ones but I will undoubtedly get some used ones too.  

Okay, so what all would you recommend for someone just getting into this hobby?  Especially if I am getting any used records, I should probably look at a record cleaner.  What else for equipment or doodads?  What about tricks or tips for increasing my collection?  In my city there is a record store called Music Millennium that I will be checking out and there of course if Barnes and Noble (where I purchased my other ones).  Do you know of places online  I should check out?  Thanks in advance for your advice. 

 

ddonicht

Showing 9 responses by pindac

I'm with @lohanimal Welcome to the wonderful world of replaying the Vinyl LP and allowing the Album Side to play throughout .

Jumping across tracks using a remote, will soon be a distant memory 😀.

If you can stretch a LP purchase to include one very well recorded pressing of a Album of choice, this will serve as a good benchmark, and enable the assessment of other acquired recordings.

Buying Used and the need to clean will go hand in glove, but Buying New and cleaning the residuals from manufacture will also offer a noticeable improvement. 

There are lots of experiences to be encountered and much to learn 👨‍🎓, if the regular usage of a TT takes a hold.

Look forward to how your experiences are shared.    

As you have a +$600 Cartridge, usually there is the hope to end up with a 1000 Hours of usage before any concern for the sacrificial stylus is needed, $0.60cents as an approximation per whole Album replayed is a attractive value in todays money spent on Cart's.

As a New to Vinyl user, the disciplines around the cueing of the Stylus is best to be give an additional attention, as this is where many have had there heart wrench moments. Take your time and eye it in, and drop the arm very slowly, this is a method that has shown contamination has collected on a stylus, as the interference can be detected prior to the LP being in contact with the Stylus. don't be shy to make contact in the first tracks play time while confidence is building 

Also if a person is prone to a snooze there are simplistic devices that will lift a Tonearm at the end of a Album Sides replay.

Cleaning the Source Material is a common discussion you are being offered.

I clean using a Manual Method over my Ultra Sound Tank, I feel very confident in my method for removing particle of interest that are less that 10 microns. There is something alluring about listening to a very long term owned vinyl that conjures up a thought of being meticulously clean, it is a pat on the back moment.

I can complete 10 Albums in approx' 1 Hour, so all LP's are cleaned, I don't prejudice against used or new, all get their 6 minutes of specialised attention.

When cleaned I use the method to exchange the paper inner sleeve for a Anti Static Sleeve, the idea of exposing the LP to Micron Particles seems better controlled when the Anti Static Sleeve method is adopted.

If the cleaning discipline, is able to add an additional 500 Hours to a Stylus usage then all is well, and the replay will diminish to $0.40 cents a replay.

If the Cart' is able to be retipped with a Stylus oc choice for a $200ish fee,  and another 1500 Hours is achieved, due to the purification method used for the Source Material,  then the replay is approx' $0.26 per Album, now that is bang for buck. 

High quality cueing is crucial to this equation 🕵

Here is a very worthwhile solution while you are gathering ideas to get you on your way with confidence.

A US based Used Record Store that supplies a LP having been Ultrasonic Tank cleaned using a machine from the Company KLAUDIO. I have discovered the USM uses side mounted transducers on either side of the LP, and this method of placing the critical parts will have a much improved produced cavitation over a single transducer mounted in the base, as with the most typical tanks found.

I did not discover the Khz for the transducers being used on this machine, but it does state 200 Watts.

I found this outlet and with cleaned vinyl on offer after a short search, I am sure there are others offering a similar service.

It does look like a Anti Static Sleeve, a discipline to keep the fingers of the LP’s surface and a Brush will get you on your way.

If at a certain time of year, the replay starts sounding quite inferior, there may be a static charge present on the LP, there are quite a few ideas on how to decrease the impact of this.

 

 

I have chose not to continue with a DIY USM I have produced.

I use a modern approach for a manual cleaning method, the practice is quite satisfying, even with the elbow grease required, I have yet to replay a cleaned LP where I though a more clean item could be produced. I am sure on my long term owned LP's I have now been quite successful with purifying the LP's from all the IPA and Detergent residuals from the earlier in life adopted cleaning methods.

I am not against using a USM, but a Single 40Khz Transducer positioned in the base, or one of the side walls of the Machine does not leave me at ease about the effectiveness of the produced cavitation and the quality of the cleaning cycle, hence my own one is buried in a cupboard. 

KLAUDIO is not a cheap machine, the design appears to have incorporated Two Transducers on Two Side Walls, so each side of the LP is exposed to a very consistent cavitation produced from Two Transducers, this method seems in my mind optimised, hence my thinking that the OP may benefit wholesomely if informed of this as a option to purchase.

 

I have always had a discipline to clean LP's and have even cleaned LP's for others, with what I have come to experience to date using the most recent Manual Cleaning Method, I feel quite sure all previous methods were woefully short of being an ideal practice.

I did attempt to change earlier methods and invested in a USM. For the record, I have not invested a substantial outlay for USM Cleaning Ancillaries. I have a machine that will get a warmed solution in the bath, the motor used to rotate the LP/LP's  will also be capable to produce a rotation that is satisfactory for a 20 Minute Cleaning Cycle.

Where I have little confidence in my USM, is where the Cavitation is produced by the Model, hence I don't feel the cavitation produced from the device is adequate to perform a clean as achieved using the Manual Cleaning Method with correctly produced solutions, applications and methodology.

The USM was also destined to use cleaning solution similar to past used solutions, and I am very satisfied not to have adopted this as a method. 

I have approx' £300 tied up in a USM Set Up that is not being used.

The change in direction in cleaning methods is one where I have approx' £90 tied up in Materials to produce a Solution, along with application devices, rinse devices and drying devices.

Without adding to the method using filtration and heat applied drying, the method is approx' £00.03 pence or $00.05 Cents per LP for the solution as a guide line.

The Applicators and Drying devices will add another small increment to the cost per LP.

As said in a previous post, I can complete approx' 10 LP's in an hour, averaging at six minutes per LP. I would need to clean 10 000 LP's to try and achieve a £00.03 pence cost per LP using the USM Set Up I own, and this is not calculating for the solutions to be used over time, and in my case not feeling confident the machine has achieved the standard of the Manual Clean Method.

The additional required effort to achieve the Manual Clean might not be attractive to all, but it is tactile and that is one of the alluring attractions for those who are wed to using a LP source material.     

The following makes references to a LP manufacture process, the information is possibly describing the contamination that was removed when I discovered how improved a New LP can present following the Manual Cleaning and Purification that is produced. The impression that is perceived that a LP in use is ultra clean is undoubtedly present. Additionally it does leave one feeling the Stylus has a very satisfactory interface within the groove, and is producing the best signal that can be achieved.   

Plasticizer: 1% of a soybean oil epoxide (ESO) provides a lower melt viscosity of the mixture, which reduces the internal friction of the mixture when it is pressed into a record and thereby improves the moldability by filling the groove with less compression force. More than 1% over-saturates the resin thereby producing oily splotches on the surface of the record, and the splotches result in noise on playback. Some of the many forum discussions on removing mold release may be actually be associated with excess plasticizer/modifier. For information, ESO is a yellowish color. So clear records if they use a plasticizer may use something different from ESO.

X.1.5 Lubricant: 0.4% of an esterified montan wax. The wax also acts as a mold release. When the record is removed from the press without the lubricating effect of the montan wax ester in the compound, the grooves of the record are sometimes fractured, torn, and deformed by the removal. These faults in the groove produce noise on playback. Montan wax ester at the stated percentage is compatible with the resins and is homogenized into the surface of the record at the normal pressing temperature. If more than the stated amount of the montan wax ester is used, the excess amount is not absorbed into the surface of the record. Its presence results in non-uniformity in the surface of the record, particularly as related to the friction between the stylus and the groove. This non-uniformity produces noise when the record is played.

Some of the many forum discussions on removing mold release may actually be associated with excess lubricant.

 

I use the Manual Cleaning Method on the very informative Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records.

The Revision 3 extends the information on offer and does make a very cost effective Anti Static device known off.

It also offers a very well presented description on particulate in the groove, and whether lodged in a outer or inner groove, if there is a difference in the detriment when the stylus encounters it.

Additionally there is a description of stylus wear in a LP without contamination that can cause detriment to the stylus. The math of the above is above what I will usually work with, which leaves myself to trust the information with an open mind.  It does suggest a thoroughly cleaned LP with Particulate removed to less than 10 microns is a good place to be.

I am again of the view using the supplied information the Manual Cleaning Method is able to achieve this.

Other Methods and especially USM machines less than a 120Kh are not looking likely to function as a cleaning method produce the less than 10 micron particulate removal and achieve the level of purification with certainty.

Other automated methods of cleaning, will be looking most likely to be cleaning solution dependant, to attain depth of soak into the groove required to achieve the removal of less than 10 micron particulate.

As said, I am not aware of any cleaning methods I have used, that has achieved the presence of clean that is perceived during a replay of a manual clean method following the documents advisories. 

Not many have had their first experience of Vinyl with such an itinerary of items in place to prepare for the upcoming eventualities.

I sense you are a 'duck to water' on this method of replays.

Taking on this quite different approach to streaming, has surely presented a few head scratching moments, with the basic considerations being presented. 

I have built many variants of a Support Structure for a TT.

My experiences of trialing different materials has created a method for producing a structure that always utilises Granite as the Base Tier, I have no concerns if this Tier is seated onto a Cork Pad, I have found the use of it has a attractive influence when used as a footer in a variety of situations.

I have always achieved a set up that if totally satisfactory by using a Two Tier Sub Plinth as the minimum, built of a rigid structure. This has been the preferred method over other options, such a Wall Mounted Shelf and suspension of the base platform from a Wall Mounted Shelf.

The use of Granite as the lowest tier is in my view a very good place to build from, and will be a good place to initially seat the TT.

Do not overlook the need to have a rigid structure under the Granite.

Also keep in mind that your environment selected to set up your TT is unique, energies transferred within it, are most likely not the same as any other TT users environment.

Methods adopted to control energies transferred within the environment,  will have a impact unique to your situation, being inquisitive about the choices available can bring great benefits, over time, a lot of different materials can be experimented with for almost Zero Outlay and a very attractive mounting method can be discovered.

My Cabinet Floor Standing and Stand Mount Loudspeakers when used, are always on a Two Tier Plinth, with Granite as the lowest tier and Kitchen Worktop Chipboard as the upper tier, with Spike Separation.

The Speakers are seated onto a suspension footer. I know chipboard as a upper tier has worked very satisfactorily with my TT mounting method in the past.    

   

@ddonicht Okay, so what all would you recommend for someone just getting into this hobby?  Especially if I am getting any used records, I should probably look at a record cleaner.  What else for equipment or doodads?  What about tricks or tips for increasing my collection? 

The above has been your request for information in the OP.

After reading and contributing to this thread, It certainly looks like the bases have been covered, and a good foundation has been made available to you.

Don't forget that Youtube is also your friend, there are a variety of demonstrations that can help to show how to best use equipment and ancillaries like you have purchased. A picture is a saving of a 1000 Words and Video is a saving of 10 000.

Also I see you have been looking at the Manual Cleaning Method.

If you do choose this as the selected method and have acquired materials to create the solutions. If at a later date you choose a mechanical or USM cleaning method, there will materials immediately available to produce a solution, that will be absolutely perfect for any of these alternate methods.