2. analog
  3. 140184-113812

Turntable got absolutely crushed by CD

Long story short, i've just brought home a VPI classic 1 mounted with a Zu-Denon DL103 on JMW Memorial 10.5 with the appropriate heavier counterweight. Had everything dialed in..perfect azimuth, VTF, overhang, with only a slightly higher than perfect VTA. Levelling checked. All good. 

I did a comparison between the VPI and my Esoteric X03SE and it's not even close. The Esoteric completely crushes the VPI in all regards. The level of treble refinement, air, decay, soundstage depth and width, seperation, tonality, overall coherence is just a simply a league above from what I'm hearing from the VPI. The only area the VPI seems to be better at is bass weight, but not by much. 

I'm honestly quite dumbfounded here. I've always believed that analogue should be superior to digital. I know the Esoteric is a much pricier item but the VPI classic is supposed to be a very good turntable and shouldn't be a slouch either. At this point I feel like I should give up on analogue playback and invest further in digital. 

Has anyone had a similar experience comparing the best of digital to a very good analogue setup?

Equipment:
Esoteric X03SE 
VPI Classic, JMW Memorial 10.5, Zu-DL103
Accuphase C200L
Accuphase P600
AR 90 speakers

Test Record/CD:
Sarah McLachlan - Surfacing (Redbook vs MOV 180g reissue)



chadsort

Showing 12 responses by uberwaltz

uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Cd player vs turntable? I don’t think we need to go there again.
??
Is that not how this thread started??

😎😎
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Imho you are all just wasting your time even comparing CD to vinyl.
There are just too many permutations than can push each ahead including the base source material.

Let's add r2r into the debate as well then while at it!

All pointless.

😎😎
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Raul.

A very honest and succinct post sir!

Sometimes the hard words have to be said.

And yes we are all learning in this game of ours, I hope I learn something every day.

Good luck to the OP but maybe digital is the correct path for them after all.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Raul
The OP answered that literally within 30 minutes of you asking previously.
Scroll back up and you will see it.

⬆⬆⬆
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
As I have stated many times previously in many similar threads.

I do not even waste my time comparing vinyl to CD or streaming or cassette.

They are all individual and all depend on the quality of the source and the source material.

I just enjoy each medium as I hear it, or not in the case of a poor recording ... Lol.

Right now listening to a CD from 2016 and it sounds pretty darn good.

I also have vinyl by same artist, same label from 2015 and yes I would say the sq is more preferable to my ears on my rig but does not make the CD bad by any standards!

It does take more time and effort and usually expenditure to get vinyl to sound really good, most already know that.

Right now I am playing a $60 CD player, Nakamichi cd4, though a Peachtree Nova DAC and very happy with the SQ. Minimal cost and effort.

To exceed this SQ, my vinyl rig is many times the cost and requires periodic verification of the basic setup just to be sure.

You pays your money and you takes your chances.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Ain't no way a starter level record player, can even beat cheap digital; or why else would millions of people chuck their mid fi turntables, and sell or give away records?


Because CD was the next BIG thing and "people" generally are stupid and sheep! It was space age, it was new, it was easy, it was convenient.
SQ was not part of the reasoning for the vast unwashed.

Rant over...lol
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Whoopycat

A little harsh and extreme there but funny in a way.

Yes lots of possible reasons but so far as stated by many members, many times.

1/ likely the phono stage has sucked the life out of the cartridge by its very limited loading options . Beg, borrow or steal a separate phono with multiple loading options to test this theory.

2/ No actual confirmation yet but it does sound like the OP is basing this off just one vinyl/cd comparison. Needs to try a lot more older known excellent pressings to get a more subjective viewpoint.

Have fun!
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
N80

Agree that there are CDs and then there are CDs. I spend a fair amount of time researching which $6 CD to get. It pays off. Just like it does with vinyl but at $6 I’m way below what you pay for even average vinyl and around 1/3 the cost of HD Tracks stuff.
I guess I am very fortunate to have one of the best and most fairly priced LRS in the USA on my doorstep.
I can buy endless as new vinyl at $4 to $8 a pop that only need a wipe down to play.
Now their bargain bin $1 boxes also hold some gems that yes require a fair bit of cleaning but hey $1 a LP or 2 as got a lot of double albums out these bins too.

I have paid more dollars for vinyl I just had to have to complete a collection that is uber rare but that is the exception not the norm for me.

Good vinyl at fair prices IS out there as long as you use logic not emotion when buying.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Cakyol.

I am confused.
You mean that you are NOT super human like the rest of us?

😇😇😇
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Islandmandan.

I agree that likely being limited to a max of 100 for loading is killing any chance of that cart shining.
My dl103d, as stated , is best at 1k ohms.

That and not having sampled any really quality vinyl is the root cause here I fear.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
I truly believe the OP did not intend this thread to be inflammatory, true the title could have a little less provocative, but rather they are genuinely dismayed that their analog investment so far is giving a sub par performance to their ears.

Now their has already been plenty of great suggestions as to why this may be and in fact it could be a combination of a lot of reasons, not just one.

I could say that the cart may not be the best match for the arm. Certainly I feel the phono stage is lacking if nothing else in range of loading but likely suffering from old age as well.

What does this mean?

Unfortunately the OP is likely going to have to spend more money to get it right ,but they will know when they do.

First try playing a different album, maybe a pristine cut from an earlier decade, one known for an exemplary performance and see how that stacks up.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Totally different setup but...
The dl103d on my Denon sounds really flat and lifeless loaded at 100ohm.
It comes to life at 470ohm but best response I have so far is set at 1000ohm. Best overall balance.

I would honestly think a good separate phono stage with lots of options to adjust loading and gain would be the next move of you are going to stick with vinyl.
$400 to $500 should see you into a good used model.
More to discover