Turn table speed variation question


I've always found that tracks containing sustained piano notes (chords mainly) seem to highlight the smallest variation in platter speed.

However, I do not notice the same speed variations with sustained notes played on any other instruments.

Works well when auditioning turntables, but a PITA when you hit those older, less than stellar recordings, where the tape machine cause the issue.

Wondered if anyone else had the same experience with a different instrument, or is this specific to the piano.

Thanks
williewonka

Showing 9 responses by halcro

Lew's right.
Any stringed instrument is particularly sensitive to minute speed deviations.
When I listen to acoustic guitar on my Victor TT-101 DD turntable with unequalled speed accuracy......an off-centre record hole will be mercilessly exposed. :-(

I do believe the word “unequalled” may be a contentious one.
Perhaps I should have elaborated….but this has been discussed in other Threads on turntable speed accuracy and I did not wish to complicate this one?
The JVC/Victor TT-101 has pretty good specs….
Wow and Flutter- within 0.02% WRMS
Speed deviation- 0.002%
Load characteristics- 0% (with a 120g total tracking force)
Drift- 0.0004%
But to me….printed specifications are meaningless when it comes to ‘actual’ performance in relation to speed accuracy and consistency?

Until recently…the concept of ‘stylus drag’ on the speed performance of a turntable…was treated with scepticism.
Then Ron Sutherland introduced the Timeline….a laser-flashing ‘puck’ which sits over the turntable spindle and has a time-base accuracy of 2 parts per million.
With this device installed………..it provided scientific evidence of the phenomenon of ‘stylus drag’ as the laser spot was seen to drift the moment the cartridge hit the record with most turntables….especially belt-drive ones.
The very best belt-drive turntables have reportedly been able to
maintain the stability of the laser dot of the Timeline…..when the speed has been adjusted with the cartridge already tracking the record. But then it is ‘out’ of adjustment when no record is being tracked?
I have not witnessed any visual evidence of these accomplishments…..they are merely empirical claims.
I have not seen nor heard of any claims regarding the speed accuracy of Idler or Rim Drive turntables using the Timeline under ‘stylus drag’ conditions.
I have tested the TT-101 under all conditions…..with and without ‘stylus drag’….and the laser dot of the Timeline does not deviate.
TT-101
This test has not been reproduced successfully with 3 arms and cartridges on and off…..with any other turntable to my knowledge?
Hence my statement?
If your turntable can match this performance…..please upload the evidence to YouTube and I will revise my statement to ‘equalled but not exceeded’……:-)
Using high compliance cartridges on heavy arms will exacerbate the problems of eccentric records as well.
Some evidence or proof for this statement would be illuminating?
Thanks for the Link Peterayer.....
Not a bad performance from the SME....
This is what any 'good' belt-drive table should be able to achieve?
There is a slight drift backwards of the Timeline mark from the beginning to the end.....but you will notice that he doesn't show the result when the arm is 'lifted' from the record or when it is 'dropped' on the record?
Nor are there multiple arms lifted on and off?
In my experience.....a belt-drive needs to be adjusted for correct speed with the cartridge 'tracking'.
I have yet to see one which doesn't suffer from 'stylus drag'?
Perhaps you would like to make a video of your TW Akustics and add it to the database.
Heh heh......unfortunately the Raven AC-2 or AC-3 is unable to be adjusted to the exact 33.33rpm with its motor controller.
Some would say this is maddening oversight?
It does however seem to maintain a uniform 'loss' of speed...if that makes any sense?
I applaud you on your SME results and your attempts to encourage others to do the same.......however I somehow doubt that many will contribute as it is just so difficult for a turntable to achieve this feat under constant stylus drag....and no-one wants to have his turntable 'publicly' exposed?
Just for the 'record'....hehe....and to comply with Peterayer's request......
HERE is a video of the TT-101 playing a record (single arm and cartridge).
At the beginning and the end....where there is silence.....the arm has not been dropped...or has been raised.
Thanks Peterayer....and thanks also for the Video of the SP10Mk2A.
It is indeed a fine result with the Timeline.
As steady as the TT-101.....
I couldn't connect with your Link to the Denon?
Any chance of posting it here?
Good answer Fleib....
No analog Lp recording is perfect as far as speed variation.
Nothing in audio IS perfect......
Just because our speakers aren't 'perfect'....does that excuse us from trying to create a 'better' amplifier?
I wrote about the Sutherland Timeline 2 years ago, when nobody did even know to spell it correctly
That's right.......he did
Only problem was......that it was 2 months after Rockitman and I had introduced the Timeline into the Thread?
And the only person who misspelt it....was Syntax himself......who couldn't spell it at all.....?

Self promotion is never attractive.....but attempting to re-write history is a chutzpah!