Actually, increase in tuning pitch dates back to the 17th Century. Medieval and Baroque music was generally tuned to A4 being around 400Hz. It's now standard at 440Hz.
There is a scientific tuning where middle C is 256Hz. This puts A at 430.54Hz. With this tuning octaves of C remain whole numbers all the way up and down. I don't think this has much to do with nature as musical notation, unless you're in the key of C ?
Regards,
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**Indeed you can buy an outer ring to improve the moment of inertia, trackability and effective platter mass.**
MOI ? This usually refers to arm/cart.
Please explain.
Regards, |
Lew,
There is no excessive pitch wobble or instability on the original pressing of Kind of Blue. It's about a 1/4 tone flat - consistently. Wobble and inconsistency implies wow and flutter type speed variations.
Even people with perfect pitch don't have a problem with this because the relative pitch remains consistent.
Regards, |
Frogman, you read too much into my post. It wasn't about intonation specifically, rather accepted standard norms of tuning. When Joseph Sauveur, a 17th century physicist surveyed commonly used tunings, they ranged from middle A being at 405Hz to 421Hz. As you say, with time they've consistently crept up.
I have a musician friend with perfect pitch. KOB doesn't bother him at all. When he hears someone playing out of tune relative to the other players, that might bother him.
Absolute pitch is the ability to reproduce a note without a reference tone. SO WHAT? Do you think my friend goes crazy when an original instrument ensemble tunes to 432Hz and modern one tunes to 444? What's KOB off a 1/4 tone? You've proven my point.
Wynton Marsalis plays a Monette Bb trumpet. I believe Charles Schlueter and Terrance Blanchard also own a Monette. I don't know how much computer modeling went into the design, but the instrument allows the player to consistently play in tune maintaining better timber and more even dynamics. Early horns had no valves or keys. They were unplayable by today's standards. Although I'm not sure what you were referring to specifically, scientific advancements tend to help rather than hurt or musicians wouldn't use them.
Regards,
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** BTW, while I am sure your friend is a fine musician, and strictly as a point of interest, having perfect pitch is in no way an indication of superior musicianship.**
Was that necessary? Matter of fact he's a superb classical pianist and has recorded many albums under his own name. I haven't seen him in years as he spends a lot of time in Europe where he has quite a following. Many years ago he was playing jazz locally and we had a conversation on this very subject. I also have a cousin with perfect pitch. She used to tune a college choir by singing the note. Of course they can hear a different tuning, but it's usually not objectionable unless there is deviation within the ranks. How else could they listen to an orchestra tuned to a different frequency?
I wonder how the Boston Symphony can play a piano concerto tuned to A = 444Hz. They would have to tune to the piano, whatever it is.
Regards, |
Thinking about the original post and other instruments possibly used for evaluation, electronic music or electronically generated signals, comes to mind. The pitch doesn't waver on these tones unless it's done deliberately.
Depending on your musical fare, I've heard records with out of tune pianos.
Standard wow and flutter test signal is a 3150Hz tone evaluated on a wow and flutter meter. This might not be a great test for subjective evaluation unless the table needs a new belt, but electronically generated harmonics with dynamic content, might. Offhand, I can't think of a good candidate though.
BTW, my previous referral to KOB being a 1/4 tone off was off the cuff and apparently wrong. The original record is a little bit sharp.
Regards, |
Frogman, I'm not familiar, in a practical way, with the note bending potential of straight barreled woodwinds. I get your point about changing the sound of a clarinet and I assume, since you brought it up, that it could present a problem within a section using both traditional and corrected instruments. As to "fooling mother nature" I'm skeptical. Correcting the interval of one note does not change the basic sound of the instrument. This is an instrument that plays one note at a time and it's the job of the musician to play it in tune. Seems to me some clarinets are cars and you're telling those players using them, to get a horse.
On the other hand, perhaps a note bent by the musician has a slightly different and more desirable flavor than one produced on a corrected instrument? Maybe so.
I always thought perfect pitch was something one had to be born with, to possess, and ear training was limited to relative pitch. Turns out, perfect pitch can be learned. Check this out:
www.richardbosworth.org/perfect-pitch-ear-training-supercourse-review.htm
**The human ear can tell when the pitch is leaning one way or the other before our measuring equipment can.**
It's not only pitch it's also location. Phase has a lot to do with location and speed obviously effects phase. Turntable speed effects everything. There's no way around it. Wow and flutter results in harmonic distortion. Some of us are pretty good hearing relative pitch. That's how we tell if the piano is wavering or the chord is changing pitch or someone is out of tune.
Absolute speed error is something most of us can get used to and eventually becomes our reference standard. I had a pre-Valhalla LP-12. It ran something like 1% fast. It didn't take long for everything else to sound lifeless in comparison. I became aware of this and sold it. I got a Goldmund DD and eventually got used to "correct" speed. Just as KOB record was not objectionable in relative terms, the old LP12 (or some other popular belt drivers) succeed on their colorations.
Enough of this for now. Everybody have a happy new year.
Regards,
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"Perfect" speed from a turntable insures that any error on a record isn't compounded.
Regards, |
Providing a platform for the record and turning at the correct speed is the basic function of a table, what it is designed to do. There may be other considerations like immunity to feedback or transmission of vibrations, but spinning at speed is the #1 priority.
Why is it that belt drive fanciers and direct drive fans seem diametrically opposed? Until you get up to very expensive decks, they have different strengths and weaknesses. After you get used to a table you like, that sound becomes your frame of reference, and other tables with different strengths sound wrong. It's not until you recognize a clearly superior table that those barriers might break down.
Why were all the high end tables after the '80s belt drive? The Japanese stopped making direct drive motors. Virtually all the "statement" Japanese decks were direct drive. It's easier to make a belt driver. It's not so easy to make a really good one. So the manufacturers and salespeople told you about benefits of driving a heavy platter with a string and low torque motor. Hear the depth and authority and don't mention the lack of timing and pace. There's a critical relationship between torque and platter mass for all types.
Regardless of cartridge and arm, the way the table spins and all that implies, defines the basic sound of a record player and is the most important part. I think Peterayer and Halcro are doing a great thing for the community, and I applaud their efforts. Maybe nothing is perfect, but you can sure hear the difference with a great table.
Regards, |
