Tubes vs. solid state.

Anyone who claims that the "overall superior performance" of solid-state has been "scientifically proven" has no understanding of the real issues.

I guess it was proven in the 70s when we had those wonderful solid-state amplifiers with their amazing THD measurements.

guyz ever try tubed bubes? As in you tape on a 6SN7. killer stuff.

The ASR Emitter is one such SS amp that gives up nothing to tubes, and does certain other things no tube amp can do. Used prices are not so bad, especially since it's an integrated. (Yes I have one listed but actually I'm keeping it.)

The Red Wine products give up a little dimensionality but tonality is spot-on, and again offer certain advantages.

Same with Pass, other traditional class A SS.

Some people just like the tonality differences that arise from the respective frequency response deviations. Since most tube amps will put out less power into lower impedances and most solid-state amps the opposite, you end up with quite different bass & other characteristics (ie the impedance rise at the tweeter xover point makes the tube amp sound brighter - more 'detailed' - more 'alive'). Depending on the speaker these differences are either a pro or con for one topology or the other.

And for sure some people do like the soft, rolled-off sound many tube amps, especially SE, give. You don't realize anything is rolled-off except in comparison. (Is this why SETs 'pull vocals out from the mix'? Because both ends are downplayed?)

I'm a long-time SE tube guy but the fact is that while tubes can sound great and it is generally easier/cheaper to build a very good tube amp, the output devices are but one part of the equation, and 'tube sound' is just as unnatural as 'solid-state' sound. Natural sound should probably be the goal.

Tvad is right.

And your tubed preamp should not be doing the bad things you say it is. It is easy enough to make a valved pre completely wide-bandwidth and quiet.

Olesonmd has the critical point - the whole point of tubes in guitar amps is their overload characteristics - in audio, while the way tubes overload may *help* certain things, we want them out of that range!

Yes, Ralph, I would like to hear everything that chaos theory has to say about tubes and audio amplification.

I type this as I listen to an ASR Emitter, which is certainly among the very best, I mean the absolute best, amps I have ever heard, and no tube anywhere.

It sounds pretty fascinating. Can you reference any papers available online?

Of course, as you well know, the math only takes you so far because our knowledge of the ear/brain system is so limited. For example, who would have thought that upper-order harmonics are so much more objectionable than lower-order? I suppose you could argue that it makes sense that the harmonics closer the fundamental are going to be less objectionable, but I don't believe there's any theory that would have predicted the extent to which the brain objects to high-order HD. Same with stuff like timing of reflections, etc. It's just the way the brain (and to some extent the ear) works. Right?

A-S, of course I pretty much agree with your thoughts. (And I do not have your engineering knowledge.)

I think most agree Pass amps sound great but not really like [very good] tube amps.. dimensionality does seem to be a bit flatter for one thing. Of course they have advantages too. It is just a different sound - one with no real weaknesses I would say.

There are quite a few SS amps now that manage to avoid nearly everything in the telltale SS signature.

Minorl is touching upon what Ralph calls the power-paradigm/voltage-paradigm issue. Those white papers of his are illuminating regarding how amplifiers interact with loudspeakers.

Now that I have sold my ASR Emitter, I can comment on it a bit more with no conflict of interest.

The Emitter is the best amplifier I have ever had or heard, and it gives up _nothing_ to any tube amp. It is absolutely as smooth and holographic as the best tube amps, with completely accurate timbre and body, and additionally with the bandwidth and power benefits of direct-coupled transistors. I am not saying it sounds like tubes - it sort of does but sort of doesn't - in ways in which it differs it is absolutely not inferior, only different. [DHSET amps still have their own sound - that 'glow' - if you are after that then they are the ticket.]

This amplifier completely changed my beliefs on what is possible with solid-state.

The only downsides are the cost and complexity.