Tube question

Why, for instance, with the labor cost in China, can't they make as good a tube as Amperex, Siemens, Telefunken, or the rest? Or do they, but we can't justify purchasing them and recommending them because they are so darn cheap? And you know that anything in hi end audio that is inexpensive can't be hi end...Also, what brand tubes, are CJ, Carey, Art Audio, etc. using in their rigs? Another also: Can/does Shuguang (specifically) make as good a tube as Siemens, Amperex etc did? What is it about a 6922 tube, or the like, that we cannot get right today? What is the complex concepts todays tube manufacturers are not getting right? Materials, labor, it would seem Russia, China has that? No? Why can't they make an even better tube? No market? What is Shuguang doing now, then? Still confused. Sorry for the plethora of ????, but I'm still not getting the answer.

Aren't these tubes a very simple design? How complex are they really? That difficult to duplicate greateness of yore? Looking at the inside one of these babies it just doesn't look that complicated. But then again what do I know? Anyway, I'm beating this to death. BTW, Andy Bowman of Vintagetubeservices.com, you mentioned, would disagree about the 12AX7s. I'm not going to cancel my 4 NOS 12AX7s nor my 6DJ8s, but on down the road, you can bet I'm going to sample some Shuguangs and hear what's up. I will then have a referent. The 12AX7s I have in my amp are counterfeits. Andy says Amperex are counterfeited the most, but all the big names have their problems with fakes. Man does he know tubes. A wealth of info that overloaded my tube ignorant brain. He was highly recommended to me from some other audiphools. And most of all? HONEST. When he says it's a NOS. It's a NOS. As you can see from his website, he have the digs to know.

Andy is a great guy, and perhaps a litte eccentric, but, like you said, you get the best from him, and it's the real deal. Can't ask for more than that, I suppose. Tvad, true he said your Herleen Hollands couldn't be real, but I bethcha if he told you they were fake, after you gave him the scoop, you'd believe him. Right? He's a great guy to know, and like all of us ('cept for me of course) have to be taken with a grain of salt. Getting back to this question I'm trying to get answered, about tube construction. Apparently there was something going on 40 years ago that we just cannot duplicate. I know Andy thinks so, and that's enough for me. Speaking of Andy, he be da man I should ask this question. I'll let you know if I can possibly explain his explanation...

come on, you know what I mean..send it to him, over the phone, he be the man you'd trust to give you the scoop, right? All I'm saying (I'm agreeing with you through the back door) it's great to have a tube guru to validate the authenticity of a tube. The sound of you'll get out of that tube? There are no tympanics I trust more than my own.

ok, given that Chassbo, are those Chinese/Russians up to snuff? Why not then? What is it in the inherent nature of the tube that is making it so hard to duplicate with the same quality? or is that not really the case?

Andy says that German, Holland, England: The three tube champs, each have their own sound. Very interesting, and it's still his opinion that they are not made as good as yester year. That being: Trela, may I ask you what tubes the Mica Shuguang Eclipsed including you old reference? And what is your reference 12ax7s, now? Just bought NOS 12AX7s from Andy and I'm wondering what your experiences have been? warren :)

Well, the tubes I ordred from Andy are not in that lot, but Andy loves them, and Joe of Joe's Tube Lore does as well: The Amperex Bugle Boys, early 60s Should have them Saturday. He also recommended that the 6DJ8s by Amperex of about the same time, were fabulous. I'm going with them, as well. At least I'll have a quality referent. I'll see where, if any, I may roll. Recommendation for break in? 8 hours continuous enough? Thanks again. warren :)

Thanks Trelja. All, good points...

warren :)