Tube Preamp Paired with Tube Phono Stage?


Hello everyone. I wanted to know if you paired a tube preamp with a tube phono stage, would that be overkill with respect to the warm sound qualities produced by the equipment? I have a PrimaLuna Prologue Three with all NOS tubes, Clearaudio Smartphono, and CODA Technologies 10.5r SS amplifier. My turntable is the Pro-Ject Debut III with Ortofon OM40. I was considering upgrading to the Clearaudio Basic+ with battery pack OR checking out the new Manley Chinook. But, with two tube units combined, would that be problematic? Thanks for your input.
wescoman

Showing 4 responses by larryi

I know this is a very rough generalization, but, I find that the idea of "balancing" perceived strengths and weaknesses or one kind of sound with its opposite (e.g., "warm" sounding component with a "thin" component) rarely works out as planned. One tends, more often to get the "worst of all worlds" rather than the best.

If you are a tube person, stick with tubes for amps, linestage and phono, and if you like solid state, stick with that throughout. While it is possilbe to mix and match, the results are unpredictable (it is NEVER obvious which combination will work).

I generally agree with Mulveling's comments. One of the big advantages (or possible source of frustration) of tube gear is the ability to "tune" the sound with different selection of tubes. There is a LOT of tube gear that actually sounds thin, bright, hard and harmonically threadbare (often times more extremely so than typical solid state gear), so don't assume that tubes will get you a warmer sound.

I don't agree that there is an advantage to using solid state with really low output cartridges. A properly selected step up transformer (and one properly located physically) used with very low output cartridges can be completely noise free. I just heard a .05 mv cartridge feeding a 1 to 30 step up transformer into a tube MM stage that was dead quiet and unbelievably good sounding. My .30 mv cartridge is quiet with a tube phonostage that has a built in step up transformer.
I do try to attain a particular sonic result and that obviously means trying to balance tonal qualities and balance and manage tradeoffs. I was merely cautioning against assuming that one can determine the intrinsic qualities of one component (e.g.this amp is warm but sluggish) which means it can be matched with another component of somewhat opposite character (this component is fast and detailed) to attain a medium ground or the best of both--the results are largely unpredictable. Everything requires a trial. The results are particularly unpredictable, and often disappointing, when someone mixes and matches tube and solid state amplification.

I have often been taken completely by surprise by nice sounding systems that sounded completely different from what I expected given what I've heard from these components in a completely different system.

Yes, I do have certain general preferences and I tend to like and dislike certain types of gear, but, there are often exceptions to such generalizations--either exceptional implementation of a design, or system matching with surprising results. An example of the former, for me, involves ceramic driver speakers--I generally don't like them--but I heard Tidal speakers that I thought were promising. The example of great system matching involved a system built around Spectral electronics that sounded nothing like other systems I've heard using that gear.

The point is: it is all about system balancing and matching, but, that requires experimentation and not reading reviews or going on reputation or relying too heavily even on what one heard from a component in a different system. This necessarily involves home trial (good relationship with dealers is a must) and an open mind.
If your linestage has reasonable gain, 60 db of phonostage gain may be enough for some pretty low output cartridges. My phonostage has 60 db of gain, my linestage delivers 13 db of gain, and I use the combination with a .30 mV cartridge with no noise or other problems.

I also agree that a fixed loading of 100 ohms is not that big of a problem--that will work with a vast majority of MC cartridges. Linn did the same thing with its Linto phonostage (fixed at 125 ohms), claiming that the switches to allow for more options would degrade the sound while 125 ohms would work with most cartridges.
I believe Jonathan Carr, the designer of the Lyra cartridges, has stated that modern cartridges do not need loading to tame ringing and a response peak because those phenomena occur at ultrasonic frequencies; but, loading may be beneficial with phonostages that are prone to overloading from such peaks. Where overloading is not a problem, he preferred the wide open sound of using very little loading (e.g., 47k ohms).

I don't think Fremer is "full of it." One can quite readily hear the effects of increased loading. Loading acts like a form of tone control--reducing high frequencies. For my taste, with my phonostages, I prefer much less loading than is usually recommended; too much loading (i.e., a lower numeric value for the resistor) causes a significant loss of "air" on top.