I love readin yer posts marco!
Ok, now i got a question...
Most engineers and amplifier designers seem to agree that the "Warmth" of tuves is a result of the 2nd order harmonic distortion, which means that what people like about tubes and the tube sound is basically distortion.
Im reading about high power amplifier construction, because im done paying big bucks for a system, so im gonna build my own 100% except for the source.
The impression im getting is that SS amplifiers with "tube like" sound actually have circuitry which introduces the 2nd order harmonic distortion. is this true?
Looking at the specs for tube gear and solid state gear, i have to agree that solid state creates a more realistic and accurate presentation of the origional source, but the distortion encountered by tube gear really does bring some extra life to music.
Personally, im a solid state dude,. After i build my reference system, i will probably mess around with a couple bottlehead kits or something, i'd like to have a tube system as well.
It is all a matter of taste though..
I know some audiophiles frown on tone controls and look for the perfect reproduction in music, and alot of these people really frown upon tubes and go with solid state, because it has less distortion.
They also frown on tone controls and such. Personally, for ME, this is all about me listening to mucic on MY terms not somone elses. I preffer solid state, but i have no problem with those who preffer tubes.
Anybody who trashes tubes needs to have a good sit down with tubes and take a long listen on a well put together system
Anybody who trashes solid state needs to do the same thing.
There is no right or wrong in this, it is what you preffer.
Me? Im a solid state guy.
Also, YER ALL A BUNCH OF SUCKERS! IM GONNA BUILD MY OWN SYSTEM FOR THE SIMPLE FACT IT WILL HAVE NO (RE-)SALE VALUE! THAT WAY NEXT TIME I GET IN HOT FINANCIAL WATER I CANNOT SELL MY RIG TO PAY THE DEBTs!!!!
HAHAHAHA!
SUCKERS!!!!
just kiddin. Yer not all suckers. Well, Marco is because im already selling his "Perch" in japan and he doesent know of it yet. hehehehe SHHHH
when i get it built over this next year i'll be sure to put pics up, i already have it planned i just gotta build it, and it will be beautiful! :) |
Tbg, I think the only reason tubes sound better to some people is they prefer that sound, while other people dont.
taste in sound is no different than taste in food. What is good for some people is not good for others.
I heared a tube setup very recently, and while it did sound good, i still like solid state better.
My girlfriend loves broccoli, i hate broccoli. She cannot understand why i do not like it. I just dont.
this is beyond a performance issue and more of an issue of taste. What tastes good to your ears. |
Marco.
Solid state EVIL?
Hmm... Maybe that is why i feel compelled to burn pentagrams and upside-down crosses in my carpet when i listen to my rig.
You might be on to something here!
Maybe SS actually stands for SATAN STATE amplifiers?
MWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!
-Satan State Slappy- |
I think people who are offended by vulgar language are just thin skinned. Either way, i guess you have every right to be offended.
I think i gained a new insight to your position on why people who dont agree with you are "Lesser people" cause the way you talk you sure seem to have elevated yourself to the pinnacle of existance where non other is your equal.
I think ill stay down here in my shallow existance of vulgar debauchery and drink a couple beers and work on cars with my buddy Marco while we "Enjoy" solid state gear.
Too bad you are so elevated that you cannot appreciate not only the finer things in life, but the lesser ones as well eh?
Hey marco, if yer ever in the denver area, get ahold of me dude. |
The fact is this.
Ive heard good tube setups. And i enjoyed them very much.
I still like solid state better.
That does not make me wrong, but what IS a rather pompous and arrogant statement is to say that "tubes sound better than solid state gear" and to boast that as a fact.
Tube gear suffers horribly from distortion. It is a pleasing distortion and can be a rather beneficial distortion, but im pretty sure that when Alicia Keys was playing the piano, that the piano did not send out a 2nd order harmonic distortion.
Distortion is distortion.
It does not take a genious to realize that if you look at the wave entering the Tube amp, and the wave LEAVING the tube amp, that the wave IS altered, and THUS, NOT the origional sound of the recording.
Solid state is more accurate, this is a proven fact. SS does not need any pixies and fairy dust to explain this fact, it does however have mathematical proof and the tests show it as well.
When Diana Krall is in yer living room singing, she is not introducing any 2nd order harmonic distortion either.
the tube amp does. Plain, simple, fact. Distortion is distortion folks.
Now im not bashing tubes, i think they sound great, and one day i will probably have a set of tube monoblocks just so i can mix things up from time to time.
Buying all this gear is about listening to music on your own terms. Some are purists who want perfect linear responce and frown on tone controls, some want to have the ability to change various aspects of the music to suit to thier tastes as well.
To me, to MY ears, Solid State Amplifiers sound great. Sure, there are some that suck, just like there are some tubes that suck, but im talking about MY enjoyment. My preference.
I prefer solid state. plain, simple, and i am correct. Tubes just dont really do it for me. I like the accuracy of solid state.
To state that preference has nothing to do about it, that it is all experience, well, maybe you need some more experience of your own. Such a definitive statement is about as idiodic as they get.
If you prefer Tubes and thier Distortion, then that is fine with me. Sit back, have your favorite drink, relax, and listen to YOUR music on YOUR terms and have fun.
I will be at home, doing the same, listening to my music on MY terms and enjoying it every bit as much as you.
And i can listen to solid state indefinatly and i dont get irratated by it. Maybe if solid state hurts your ears that much, you should consult a physician and see about making sure your ears are not going the way of the dodo.
Just dont sit there with a holier-than-thou attitude and tell me that my taste and my preference is wrong. Because when you say that, then I am right, and YOU are wrong. |
Jim2, give it up man, seriously.
i never said i was well seasoned with experience of tube gear, however, it did not take me a long time to decide i prefer solid state amplifiers. A friend of mine picked up a Manley Stingray that he had going to a set of thiels. It replaced a Krell that he had running. I think the Krell sounded better. I also heared some Cary tube monoblocks at a dealer about a month back. Diddnt really find them better than solid state either.
why is that so hard for you to grasp?
i NEVER EVER EVER said SS is BETTER than tube. i said that I, Slappy, Me. I preffer solid state.
read my posts and TRY to find me wrong.
i said I PREFER Solid State. PERSONAL PREFERENCE MAN! Why does it bother you SO much that i prefer something different than you?
Get over it dude. seriously. I dont really care if you agree with my preference. I dont sit here and bash you for liking tubes more than SS gear. Get a life |
KT-88,
Your definitive statements of tubes over SS are rather dumb.
Your inability to grasp the concept that people might not like the same things you like and that it is ok, rather disturbs me.
Your notion that your beliefs are the end-all-be-all of fact blows my mind.
In fact, you have demonstrated almost every aspect of a person that that causes me to not want to want to get to know them.
Yet, somehow, i feel that yer an ok person, and i would probably get along with you in person just fine.
you are a strange person.
But I think you might be sitting a little too close to your tubes. :) |
Ok,
here is is, the thing i just dont get about you Tube guys.
I have repeatedly said i like tube equipment, but i prefer SS. I dont understand why people cannot accept that somebody preffers solid state amplifiers over tubes.
It seems like everyone who preffers tubes thinks that thier opinion is the only right one.
Well quite frankly, solid state has never given me listening fatigue. Maybe it is because im only 26 (27 in two weeks happy b-day me!) and my hearing is in fantastic shape and it does not fatigue me.
As for Data Numbers Testing, I know that testing is not the be-all end all. But if you set up test gear in front of the singer, and record the singing, then play it back over both forms, there will be more distortion in tube gear. Im not sayin that is a bad thing, alot of people credit that distortion to the rich full sound they are getting from tubes.
It is plain and simple, i like Solid State better. I think it is less maintenance, it saves energy (maybe not class A) and i think it sounds full, rich and involving. I like it better than Tube gear.
People like different things. That is a plain fact. Whats good for the goose is not always whats good for the gander.
Anwyays, Its too bad that alot of people seemingly cannot accept the fact that somebody preffers something different.
And to say "you just havent heared good tube gear" is just a lame statement. Does EVERYONE have to like what you like?
Hey, i like the Broncos. Does that mean if you like the Raiders that i am WRONG in liking the broncos? Does that mean that i do not have enough experience with football to appreciate the raiders?
I mean, what im basically hearing here, is that TUBE GEAR is better than Solid State gear in every aspect and everyone who does not agree with this preference is wrong.
There are alot of very intelligent and educated people on this board, i just dont understand how so many intelligent and educated people can be so naive to the fact that not eeveryone likes the same thing.
Anyways, this has just gotten dumb.
IF you all think im WRONG for liking SS gear, if you think i am getting listening fatigue when i know that i am not, then thats fine. go ahead and delude yourselves, obviously you know everything and have some sort of GOD like power to know that i get tired of listening to my crappy rig, cause i know i sure can listen to it forever without getting tired of it.
Why cant people just enjoy what they enjoy?
This is like a audiophile version of the christian crusades.
I like Dogs. I like Tbone Steak, I like fords, i like Budweiser, i like Blues, i like rock, i like reading, I like watching action movies. I like getting high and watching cheetas taking down gazelles on the discovery channel. I like working with my hands, i like drawing, i like scuplting, i like power tools, i like working out, and damnit, i like solid state amplifiers.
So, with that list, is there anything else im WRONG about liking?
I think im about done in this forum. I have all the respect in the world for tube gear, and i have all the respect in the world for your preference of tube gear. But im a SS man myself.
Peace! :) |
Err, done in this thread... not forum
Cant get rid of me that easily! :) |
Damn dude! Sure nailed the lid to that coffin! :) |
