Try a sub a third in the back


I’ll share something I stumbled upon in the off chance it transforms your listening experience as it did mine. I purchased a rel s/510 while they were on sale to replace a lesser sub. First, the sub is remarkable. I thought it would just add bass extension. I had no idea it would improve the sound stage so much. But now I had 3 subs with absolutely no space in the front of the room to place the third. I planned to sell it. If you like to tinker like me with your system, you probably would have had the same thought I finally did: connect the third sub for the hell of it. In part, the idea was inspired by the long and very good article someone on here linked to about subs: soundoctor.com that talks about putting a sub at the back of the room for HT. The lower the frequency, the more non directional the sound. So, having a sub behind me should be okay in a two-speaker setup. The worst that might happen, I thought was that I might shake my house off it’s foundation. But what happened was absolutely unexpected. The sound in the room became amazingly three dimensional. This is not hyperbole. I have a good system and especially with the new Rel sub, there was good width, height, and depth to the sound. But the effect of adding the third sub was to double or triple the depth into the room. I didn’t believe it so I turned the rear sub on and off, repeating the songs. I’ve done this for a week because sometimes new experiences don’t hold up over time—a product of wishful thinking. This one has lasted. I will describe the change this way. Without the rear sub, the vocals were centered, other instruments were placed around the front of the room—some further away than others. Adding the rear sub stretched the centered voice in front of me from 2d to 3D, like someone was in the room, or better, I was in the vocalist’s room. Imagine taking a photo of the singer and stretching it into a 3-dimensional figure in front of you. It’s like that. Although my previous system had good depth before, with the third sub it sounded like I was swimming in the music. there was an exceptional separation of the instruments around and over me not just in front of me. I won’t go on because results will vary. But if you like to tinker and you have a third sub in the house, give it a go. I hope it turns out as holographically for you as it did for me. (Details: I connected the Rel using the line in from my power amp and two RCA outs on my Dac (it also has XLR outs that I use) to connect the other subs.)

pennpencil

Showing 6 responses by golfnutz

@hilde45 

Please look at the graphs for 2 subs, and 3 subs in the link you provided for Distributed Bass Array. Why on earth would anyone spend in excess of $500 - $4000 by adding a third or fourth sub  based on those measurements. I know in your case you bought a pair of Rythmic subs and already had the REL, but still, IMO the DBA is a complete waist of money on extra subs if they're not needed, or do very little in the difference they make (measurements required). Also, search, and check out Tom Welti, to see what his recommendations are for subwoofer placement in a rectangular room.

Google Tom Welti white paper.

Conclusion from his testing:

Four subwoofers are enough to get the best results of any configuration the best results of any configuration tried. Two subwoofers is very nearly tried. Two subwoofers is very nearly as good and has very good low as good and has very good low frequency support as well.

 

Problem is, some members are advocating 4 or more subs is the only way to go. It just isn’t true, as well as a complete waste of money - let alone telling everyone that corner placement is essential, which also isn’t true.

LOL at the guy who has his subs in the worst position possible...

 

Haven’t seen any naysayers reply on here yet. Sure, 3 or 4 subs work best, but how much better are they than 2 subs? Measurements, and proper sub positioning are required to know what the number should be, not just throwing subs in the room and saying OMG. Just look at the measurements in the link Hilde45 posted earlier on. Would you add a 3rd sub for a 3dB change in a couple of frequencies, that you wouldn’t be able to hear the difference anyway?

 

OP should try turning off 1 of the subs, at the front and than the other at front of the room to try and hear the difference. Better yet, be blindfolded have someone turn 1 sub off (or none) and see if he can guess how many subs are on (assuming the sub in the rear is always on).

And from the link above:

Conclusion:

Moving from one subwoofer to two makes a very noticeable difference in the performance of the system. Going from two to four was always an improvement, sometimes for certain seating positions more than others. Often the improvement was so subtle, that it would probably not be worth doubling your budget for subwoofers.

 

Third test:

We added a second subwoofer in the same position behind us. The least effect was in the chair in the center of the room, but the bass was considerably cleaned up in that position, and to a greater degree in all other positions. Front to back frequency balance was much smoother.

Fourth test:

We had two subwoofers in the two front corners. All the front to back ringing came back with a vengeance. Side to side was consistent, but consistently bad. Very noticeable excitation of the front to back room resonance.

I use a pair of Whirlwind Split 6 (XLR) out of my DAC. One Split 6 connected to Left Channel, other to Right Channel. I don’t run my Subs in Stereo, instead, I run them in Dual Mono. Out of Split 6 (left channel), one cable to Amp, one cable to Sub on right side of room (5’ out of corner facing opposite wall), one cable to Sub on Left side of room (behind couch) facing opposite wall. Do the same for the Right Channel, connecting the cable to the Right Channel input on both subs and amp.

I tried adding a 3rd sub, and it didn’t make any difference in my measurements (couldn’t hear any difference either).

 

@lewinskih01

Someone was asking how to connect a third sub.

I was giving an example of one of the ways to do it using a splitter in a dual mono configuration.