TRL Marantz Sa-14
Ozzy- ????? It is common practice that the receiver of a shipment,unfortunately, has to file the claim and go through the red tape. Paul worked diligently on behalf of Howard, by the way, with Fedex on this matter. We all heard about this Fedex screw up and are glad it is getting resolved. Oldpet- I spent 5 hours with the ST-225 a couple weeks ago. I heard it with a TRL SA14 source and two different sets of speakers-Soundlab M 1's and Aerial 7 B's. It had a very natural detailed and resolving sound. The timbre of instruments was excellent and the soundstaging and extension was very very good. A better match for the Aerials than the Soundlabs which would really need the big brother- the 550 watt ST 550. Handled the Aerials very well which are no picnic either in terms of efficiency and load. A very nice integrated amp with excellent build quality. |
Hey Ozzy- You are missing something. Howard is just fine. He is going to end up with a much much better SOTA reference unit and I am sure in this situation they graciously gave him their preferred pricing they are able to get from Marantz. Not sure why you are insisting there is a problem, but maybe you have nothing else to do. |
Jsala- The Quicksilver really does seem to take most of the 72 hours to settle in. Apparently the break in is somewhat dependent upon the current through the specific contacts. Yes, initially, it makes things much brighter and edgy in my experience. That does smooth out quickly and I like the overall impact of the product after it settles in. |
Jay- Can't say for sure about the various break in times, but if you used it on all of your components/IC's/speaker cables/power cords then there might be some link that is behind the others. The three day mark seemed to settle everything in for me. I have had a positive experience, but as with any tweak or treatment, YMMV. Keep us posted. |
La45- There are some SA11's on order to be modded by TRL. They would be able to give you a before/after analysis. As for needing a "quantum" leap from the Sony 2000 ES to upgrade, that is probably hard to do for any machine as you know. I guess it depends on how you define quantum. I think Jack had the TRL SONY 2000 ES. Maybe he could comment on the difference between that and the TRL SA14. The TRL SA14 is certainly better than the TRL 595 I had, but the 595 has many of the same positive qualities. I understand your concern about the SA14 as a unit that is no longer in production. |
Jes45- Yes, I wonder now about the power cords on my TRL modded MF A300 integrated amp, and my TRL Marantz SA14 as well as speaker cables, and IC's I am using now that I have a more transparent and resolving overall system. You are correct that synergy is critical. I have always taken the approach of not using cables as tone controls so I think I have pretty neutral stuff, but am always wanting to hear what others have tried with good results. |
Sbayne- Yes, very thorough and thoughtful comments. However, all those great attributes have not melted together into one very believable sound. I still know IÂ’m listening to a CD. There are many who believe that the TRL players actually take near 750 hours to fully relax and settle in. Your sense of silver wire in the mix is likely accurate. I think they use some of their proprietary power cord wire to the IEC inputs and this is long break in stuff. Curious as to the rest of your system/cables, etc. I found with the TRL 595 I had that it exposed some of the weaker areas in my integrated amp and speakers a bit more. For me, anyway, it kind of put my system components out of sync. I ended up having TRL mod my integrated amp. I eventually moved up to the SA14. As good as the 595 was, and I am sure the SA8260 is, the SA14 does take the next step to suspending disbelief even moreso. After the SA14 broke in, I ended up moving up to the next level of ACI monitors. Moral of story- send the damn thing back before you end up upgrading your whole stinking system :) Just kidding-but it does get you working on the whole synergy and system blance thing. Keep us posted. |
Another way to look at it is, and all this is, is, another way to look at it: how many modified TRL CD players have you seen for sale on this site? I'm a pretty regular Audiogoner and I have only seen one. I sold my TRL Sony 595 pretty quickly when I moved up to the TRL Marantz SA14. Yes, the TRL units used are a great value. Like any modded unit, though, the seller takes a hit. As for an A/B of the SA14, I have a buddy who is assessing his SA14 right now before he sends it off to TRL. Many have heard before and after. TRL can certainly provide you an opinion on what they think the difference is; but you likely will prefer the report of an end user like Oldpet, Jes45, etc who visit here often. By most reports-the mod allegegly addresses the thin-ness and digital hash especially of the unit, while increasing detail and extension significantly. I had mine shipped directly to TRL for the mod. |
La45- The TRL SA14 is better than anything I have had before including: -CEC transport/Bel Canto DAC 1.1 -Cary 308 -other various midlevle Pioneer/Sony players. It is also better than the Sony TRL 595 I had this Spring which was an excellent player in every respect. My turntable/cartridge/phono stage is in my signature. The TRL Sa14 does many things better than my modest setup, but analog has it's own character and I would say that there are some recordings I tlike better on my TT setup. This is depenedent upon the software/or LP also. |
La45- Well, I actually had pretty limited experience in listening to higher end digital. Just my stuff through the years and a friend who actually has had some high end DACs, etc. I got my first TRL unit (595) without hearing it first. I had talked with some people who had it, a pro reviewer, and of course Paul Weitzel. Really just took a flyer on TRL (as I would have with any modder, really). Guess I just liked what others had to say and Paul was clearly ethical and passionate about audio. I am sure other modder units are excellent also, but I am very happy with my TRL SA14. |
Baranyi - Call or email Paul at TRL. He has had representative units of almost all of the modded machines of those you are considering come through the TRL shop for work and has likely worked on all of the stock units these modders use also. They have done something like 600+ mods in the past year so have seen a lot of gear versus just a few certain units. If anything, you will get more information to assist in your decision. He is very honest and helpful and will not push any product at all. It also might be helpful if you could decribe your ideal sound character and maybe folks could comment if a particular modded unit seems to meet those criteria. Also, if you are dying to hear a TRL Marantz SA14 and are not a serial killer (just kidding) we can work something out. I live three hours west of the city in the Quad Cities. |
Baranyi- Here is a link with a small picture of an SA14 v1. I think they only came in black. http://www.consumerreview.com/cat/audioreview/digital-sources/cd-players/Marantz/PRD_321710_1586crx.aspx The v2's certainly were very attractive and only came in that traditional champagne. It is my understanding that there is no difference after the TRL mod between the two versions, but check with Paul at TRL about that. The v2's are usually more used than the v1's. The v1 is a nice looking unit and like v2, the build quality is very good. |
This link is much better picture: http://www.marantz.com/pdfs/c_sa14.pdf#search='marantz%20sa14' You will need Acrobat reader to open the .pdf file. Regards- |
Welcome to all the new owners of the TRL SA14! It really still brings a smile to my face every time I spin a disk. As for vibration dampening; I am using isoblock type things that Brian W. recommended. Have not tried others and I simply have 4 of them under the stock feet. The unit is placed on a very heavy MDF shelf unit on a basement carpet over cement floor. I should play around with tweaks more, but after I got my speaker placement dialed in decently, I am taking a break on changes right now. |
Pardales- I don't think so, but I could be wrong. I didn't and have not noticed any change in SACD since my break in period. A lot of the break in has to do with common parts modded or replaced I think, but no one knows the specifics except TRL. A technique I like is to run for several hours (24-48) and shut down for a few hours or overnight and start again. Enjoy the player. It is pretty special. |
La45- I know you are just teasing :) We all know the the TRL Sony 2000ES is an elite player also. I know of a very experienced audio industry guy who sold his $4000 modded Denon from another well known modder and now owns the TRL 2000ES(Actually two of them now). I would check with Paul or Brian, but unless you want the champagne color (which is awesome) I don't think there is a significant difference between v1 and v2 SA14 modded. Could be wrong. |
Pardales- Chatted with Paul about the break in issue to verify what we talked about months ago. The answer is yes and no (:> If the machine was brand new, then more yes as you have to break in both SACD and CD for a period of time. If the unit was already used, then the DAC needs minimal re-break in and the unit break in overall can be done with either or both. I think I got this right (:> |
Valence- Here is their website link. http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/ Specific questions to their email listed are usually answered by Paul Weitzel pretty quickly. They mod most any digital unit or amplifier for a standard fee of $550. Don't ask me why they picked that figure, but most would say it is the deal of the century in audio. Yes, they make $140,000 SOTA tube amps and $30,000 digital reproduction units. They also do audio recording and engineering projects, cables, Record Cleaning products, CD Treatment projects, and medical field digital technology work on a major scale. They have been around for decades and are generally thought of very postively by those in the audio business. They are now making a solid state integrated amp that many people like that is around $5000 I think. I have heard it firsthand and it is quite good. Good luck. |
Good point about the TRL modded units will subsequently reveal changes you make in your system regarding tweaks or downstream changes quite easily. I am guessing that mods from most high end shops do this this to some extent. TRL certainly places a premium on detail and reducing noise floor in all of their mods. It is amazing how much noise is present in most units and amps and we don't realize it until it is removed. Enjoy the music! |
Pardales- How many hours do you have on it? I mean no disprespect as everyone has different tastes, but the break in is a big deal on these things for various reasons-not the least is some of the new propreitary wire used in the mod which takes a very long time to settle in. But, you may have already put 400-500 hours on it and it just doesn't work for you. |
Has anyone sent a high end cdp such as a Cary to TRL to be modded and with what results? They have done over 600 units in the past year. Many very high end units to my knowledge of all makes and models. They have also worked on many very expensive modded units from other modders. I would contact Paul. Remember-they make a $30,000 digital unit themselves. You will be surprised as to what they have found is best to mod in their opinion. It does not always equate with stock unit price. The SA14 in this thread was a $3000 stock unit like your Cary. FWIW, I had a Cary 308 which I liked very much, but even the entry level modded TRL/Sony 595 was signiicantly better IMHO and that was a $150 stock unit. Another opinion to get might be from Empirical Audio as Steve Nugent also has a wide range of experience and a solid rep. Good luck. |
Question: Is anyone of you guys using it as a SACD player? Sounds like you really love the SA14 v2. I know TRL thinks the build quality is very very good and it is a great platform for modding. I listen to 95% Redbook. Huge range of quality of recordings and mastering. The SA 14 makes all of them listenable and the well mastered ones are stunning. SACD can be even better depending upon the mastering. The SACD's that Paul engineered I have heard are wonderful. Other SACD's are not so great, but that comes with the territory. |
But I can tell you the truth that a stock Marantz SA-1 destroys a TRL Marantz SA-14. Lawyerman- I am a little confused. You state the above, then you provide a lengthy quote from RAM it appears that states how lousy the SA 1 is. I guess Kyle and Doug at RAM don't agree with your asessment of the SA-1, but they are modders and that would not be good for business to like a stock unit I guess :> Like I said, different opinions make this hobby interesting. At least your posts have certainly helped this "boring and repetitious" thread. |
Lawyerman- Of course Marantz will tell you that- what are they supposed to say? All companies will claim their flagship is SOTA and the benchmark for years to come :) Glad you are enjoying your SA 1. I see from previous threads that you state you sold a $22K Wadia setup for your SA1 and you have a $200K system. You must really like it. Surprisingly, there are a couple SA 1's sitting on AGON right now pretty cheap and have been there for weeks.. Somebody should grab one. LaFish is a pretty reputable seller. By the way, when did you get your SA14 modded by TRL? Did you listen to it stock before you sent it on to TRL? Many people tend to think the SA14, either version 1 or 2 pretty much barked in stock form. What version do you have? |
Jack- LOL! Kitchen almost done. Had turkey day here and we broke in the new oven. I am broke now so doing cheap tweaks :) Kitchen remodels are the crack-cocaine of today's women. Am wondering about power conditioning for the TRL SA14. The Audio Magic Mini Digital looks interesting. As for the tweaks-I changed the coupling material between my speaker stands and my ACI Jaguar monitors, and also am now using two ziplock bags of sand on top of the TRL SA 14. Both made a difference, especially switching to Blu Tack underneath the ACI Jags. System sounding great-wish I could buy the TRL power amp. I think the Jags would enjoy a bit more juice than 150 x 2. |
La45- The most obvious change @ around 300 hours will be bass extension from my experience FWIW. I was also a little anxious about bass weight and extension, but once it kicks in you should have it in spades. Very clean natural extended weighty low end IMO. Not sure why the sandbags on top made an enhancement, but it must have helped the unit dampening a bit even though it is well built and heavy and I think TRL does some dampening also. I am using the TRL supplied isoblock type things underneath for isolation. Isolation and dampening tweaks are so system and room and floor and rack specific. Seemed to help on my already very heavy DIY MDF rack which is on a cement floor. Who knows how sound travels and reverberates at the mcro level in each room. I never ceased to be amazed as to how every little element of a system and setup can make a difference (sometimes + and sometimes not so +). Keep us posted. |
La45- It is a bit hard to put my finger on the difference. Paul says the 900 measures out the most neutral of any unit they have modded. This can be a good thing, or not, depending upon your perspective. The SA14 probably had a slight lower midbass and/or lower range bump that I really liked. Maybe it was just the interaction in my system. Since TRL modded my integrated amp also-it is very neutral also so I think I can discern source and cable nuances pretty well.. Both units are incredibly quiet, detailed, and void of glare. Maybe I will try the Oriteks sometime. Many folks like them. |
