Sorry for the typo. The forthcoming Western Electric amps will be $16K/pair. |
Thanks for the compliments. Tubegroover, the Vandersteen 5/Cary V12 setup was in a larger room. On the 4th floor. Anyone who thinks of the words "slow, overly warm, vague, and lacking in detail" when thinking of Vandersteen will have to reassess their philosophy. This was my first experience with the 5s, and the thing that struck me was that they were about half the size I expected them to be. I will definitely take you up on the invite one day. Thank you! Bpmnyc, I am no longer in town, but would have stayed for Sunday had I known. I think you are a very wise man. Your Friday/Sunday strategy seems brilliant. The Saturday crowd attracted a lot of non Hifi people specifically, and a lot of people in general. The other two days would be much less crowded. Probably Friday even more so. Andrew Singer definitely made his presence felt this weekend. Can't say he is a guy I would buy from, but he does carry an impressive lineup. Murderer's Row of the audiophile world. The new Coincident speaker cable(CST 0.5?) is going to be HUGE. That is, if we can get past our recent history of equating price with quality in this hobby. Here is a 6 foot speaker cable that will retail for $200! Israel told me that it will best a lot of cables out there, regardless of price. He gave me cable advice once before. I was a little bit skeptical back then, thinking he was just another guy who was blowing his cable's horn. After auditioning, he certainly proved to be a man who knows what he is talking about. The fact that so many of us on this site like his cables says something. Question, I have heard most cables disparaged on this site. With the exception of Coincident. That is amazing. Oh, I forgot to mention Nordost in my initial post. I am not a Nordost pusher on this site, but neither do I disparage them. Well, I will say their cables are WAY too forward. If the guy who makes them actually believed what he was saying about his cable's sound at this show, I have to say I am not a person who will ever buy his products. If he cannot match his cables to the right equipment, he just doesn't get something. I would like to hear them in a VERY laid back system. That is the only place I could ever envision them. Or, for people with severe hearing loss(needing Nordost for things to sound natural). I have to disagree with the new Soliloquy speaker(prefacing it with the statement that I did not give it a long audition). I thought the speaker unflattering. More hifi than natural sounding music. Most disturbing is that it looks like this company is going the Acarian route. A company who made it bones with great speakers which seemed to represent tremendous value in the industry. Now, on the road to upping their prices in a big way. I have recommended their speakers many a time on this site. But, if this new speaker represents the future, they will inevitably lose my allegiance. I wish I can remember the other rooms that I thought were commendable, but I guess I could not retain everything. I apologize for this. Some companies were actually impressive. Would love to read the impressions of all who attended the show. Thank you |
One more comment on the new, low price Coincident speaker cable. Not only is it a mere $200/6 ft pair, but each additional foot is only $20! I have been screaming about cable being overpriced since joining this site. How we need more cables that compete with anything and carry a low price tag. Not budget cables, but great cables that are not so overpriced. This speaker cable appears to have the potential benchmark status that their interconnect has achieved. |
Plato, thank you for jarring my memory about some more of the rooms I was impressed with. The Legend Audio sound was all that has been stated above. It's true, deep bass was lacking, but the overall system sound was better than many at the show. This is now the second time I have heard their amplifiers. All I can say about the Class C Stereophile rating is, BS! Amps like Arcam, Bryston, Conrad Johnson, Rega, and VTL are certainly no better(not to take away from them), and all Class B. I would not hesitate to buy an amp from them. And this is coming from a guy who doesn't like 6550s. Wonder how great these babies would sound with some KT88s. Roman Audio speakers took me by suprise. Never heard of them before. Hope to hear more... Eggleston was also very good. This is one speaker company that sweats the details, and it shows. I mean the theory, practice, design, and construction. While others are fancier on the outside, Eggleston seems to first get the inside of the speaker right. The Japanese amplifier(Nori?) was certainly impressive looking(they weren't playing, just showing). Can't say I would buy them, but they looked interesting. Solid state I liked(coming from a tube guy): Musical Fidelity, SimAudio, and Classe(usually am underwhelmed by their stuff). I suggest that next time we attend one of these shows, we do it as a group. Not so much in terms of going to see things together, but presenting ourselves as such. Trying to make our presence seen, heard, and felt. We can even cover it in better fashion than just my little untidy thread. |
If you think this is a diatribe, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. That is exactly what I have been stating here. MY OPINION. I am sorry if you don't like it. But, I am also standing up here big, tall, and proud to tell you that what you complain about is NOT going to change my approach. I will simply give my impressions of what I saw and heard. If you don't like it, fine. Be sure to check out Stereophile's report of the show. It will be rosy all around. My report is aimed at my fellow members on this site. A site where we are not afraid to tell things like they are. It is my HONEST opinion. Good or bad. And, there was a lot of good sprinkled in. If I trash a room, it is because I thought the sound was poor. Simple as that. I have no relationships with any company at the show. I wonder what your reasons are for getting offended at what was written. Just keep in mind that my credibility seems to be OK, as I am not the only person stating certain companies did a lousy job. And, even if I am the only one saying it, that is OK. It is simply my taste. Question to you, would you rather have someone sit here and tell you EVERY room was peaches and cream? If so, I am sorry, but you will be disappointed with anything that you get from me. That just isn't in my personality. I am a big fan of Rogue, and I felt their sound to be bad. Now that I read Snooker14's post, I seem to remember that Rogue was teamed up with Audio Physics speakers. Bad combination, in my OPINION. Snooker disagreed. That's fine. That's why they make vanilla AND chocolate. I have no problems with anyone who disagrees with me. I am no authority in this field. I do expect good sound from people who make their livings in the field, however. Is that too much to ask? And Snooker, I am interested in the Dick Sequerra power conditioner. It is $895, will be marketed through AlphaCore Goertz, and hopefully will help in an issue I experience in my system. They told me if it doesn't, simply return it. |
Thanks to everyone for both the support and the criticism. As I reported previously, I simply reported my own impressions. Good or bad. If anyone has a problem with them, that is fine. You can either accept it or reject it. But, you will be getting it from me. I don't care who you are, I will not sugar coat something. I hold the high end manufacturers to a high standard. If you have a problem with that, tough. If I step on some toes, that is OK. Not everything in life is perfect, or deserves praise. I did praise those who I felt worthy of it. Likewise, I torched those worthy of it. No excuses. No apologies. As Joekras states, we are East Coast guys. We tell things like they are. If you are into BS, I am sure you can find those people too. From what I see, the vast majority of what I have stated has been echoed by others who either attended the show, or have experience with the product. That tells me I am more close to the mark than I am far. Those opinions are coming from some of the most respected members of this site. I don't think I can be unhappy about that. I'll put these people up against ANYONE in this industry. There will always people who don't want to hear whatever message. Some more opinion... The Talon speakers have been trashed by many here. We all have basically the same opinions of them. That should speak volumes. Sean's analysis of how the speakers measure mirrored my impressions perfectly. I will again ask, this is a speaker with a 5 digit price tag??? I haven't heard them broken in, but from the way they sounded at the show, they have created a lot of hype(in Stereophile and on Audiogon) over an inferior(yes, you read that right) product. I am confident anyone with a good sense of sound would not plunk down that kind of money for such a speaker. Their finish is excellent, their design is beautiful, their ad copy first rate. The sound at the show was HORRIBLE! I buy a product based on how it sounds, not how great the finish, design, or advertisements are. If the speakers were not broken in, and do sound much better than they did over the weekend, the people at the show should lose their jobs. I know if that was my company they would. They just cost me A LOT of business. Now, on to Creek. This is a Stereophile Class A rated integrated amp that they decided to pair with a decidedly inferior pair of speakers. What came out? Bad sound. Suprise? No. I gave Creek a compliment by saying their stuff can sound much better. Whoever made the decision in pairing that amp with that speaker did the company a tremendous disservice. Maybe they should lose their jobs. The point of a show is to make your product sound as good as possible. So maybe a person with no local dealer will have his interest piqued enough to buy. I am lucky enough to have my dealer carry Creek. I know what it can do. This was not that. Now who appears in a worse light, the Creek people at the show, or those who want to gloss over Creek's shortcomings in setting up a good system? Dynaudio is one of the class marques in speakers. Why do they not know how to make an $85K speaker, in a very good room, sound good? I didn't bash Acarian, just stated that they used to make speakers which were reasonably priced, and didn't absolutely take over a room(4 gigantic tower - the only speaker they showed). No longer. Lots of us stated that Red Rose was not what they hype. But really, did we actually expect a speaker with a 5.25" woofer to sound like a full range speaker? Something about the laws of physics kicking in there. The horn company that showed with AtmaSphere was awful. In a second floor room(read big - which should mean good, and one of the two main floors) they had no one in there. I stayed a good five minutes(because I like AtmaSphere so much), and watched people walk out looking as if they just sucked on a lemon after just 10 seconds of listening. My comments about Linn are exactly what everyone else wrote. Too much bass(in a big room) and too bright. We are all welcome to our opinions, regardless of whether we agree or disagree. However, you will not be able to quell mine, no matter how hard you try. |
Charlie, please forgive me for not answering your question. In terms of room treatment, I don't feel capable of giving you a very accurate number. I will leave it to the concensus of all that were there. On my end, can I venture a guess that it seemed to be a little less than half? Some companies did very little, just a piece or two or whatever. It did seem to me that the companies who were in the bigger rooms, on the 2nd and 4th floors, used a lot more room treatment. Are my feelings based on the fact that they had more room, or I am just dreaming? We keep going back to the Roman Audio room, for good reason. They seemed to really put a lot into room treatment. These guys, despite being not well know, really looked to have their act together. Excellent sound. I was most impressed. As I previously stated, I never heard their equipment before, but would like to hear more in the future. And, enjoy the Creek. Take pride in the fact that you can make it sound so good. It does have the potential. Sqjudge, thank you so much for your perspective on what a very dilligent company puts into the show. And no, I did not take notes. Everything in this thread is straight off the top of my head. I thought about taking notes next year. Only for the fact that there is so much that I was not able to retain. Someone mentioning something does jar it from my memory effectively. I doubt I will take notes in the future. My feelings about notes is that they would rob my spontaneity, enjoyment of the show, and make me look like someone from the press. As it was, I was just like everyone else there. One thing I do want to say is that I had a great time. This is one of my favorite hobbies in life, and I welcome the opportunity to participate in it on many levels. Sure, there was bad sound there. But, there was a lot of good sound too. I do hope I conveyed strongly my appreciation for the companies/rooms I liked. I got to hear a lot of great music, see a lot of equipment, meet people, and gauge the general health of our hobby(which seems to be thriving). Isn't that what it's all about? |
Thanks for the message Leafs. It is much appreciated, especially coming from you. I promise that whenever I submit something on Audiogon it will by my honest, heartfelt, personal opinion. With all of us maintaining this philosophy, we are ensured the broadest, deepest, most accurate audio coverage around. People of every background, taste, and experience offering up what we honestly see, feel, and most of all hear. Regarding the show in New York, I had a great time, and certainly will return. I heard good sound, and bad. Personally, if it was my company presenting at the show, I would do my darndest to make sure we presented ourselves in a flattering manner. Going to whatever extent required. Even constructing a mock up of the room we would be in, if necessary. Then, go about making sure everything was as good as could we could make things. Otherwise, why be a part of the whole thing? The downside is way too risky. Take for example Talon. A pretty new company, with probably not a lot of show experience. A product which has caused a lot of debate throughout the audiophile community. Polarizing people into those that love it, and those that hate it. From the surface, there seems to be a lot to admire about the speaker. The design is beautiful, the fit and finish excellent, the marketing strategy smart. All that remains in a potential customer's mind is the sound. The premier goal of a company like that should be to turn as many people on at the show as they possibly can. To put their best sonic foot forward. From what I had heard through the crowd and read in this thread, they instead turned as many people off as they possibly could. The ramifications of which could be enormous. I went there most wanting to check out the combination of horn speakers with SET amplification. Next, I wanted to hear a few other brands. Including Talon. To form my own opinion. I spent a good amount of time in the room. Sadly, I came away with extremely negative feelings about the product. I am not completely sure about the drivers, but my impression was that they did not seem to be of the type normally encountered in an audiophile speaker. I have dabbled in the speakerbuilding hobby long enough to recognize many of the drivers(and brands) used in the industry. These, particularly the woofers, were not recognizable. No matter, sound is far more important to me. And, it was that that I was most disappointed with. Sean's detailed report of the speaker's measurements were a perfect mirror of what I heard(maybe all those years in the speaker building hobby did teach me something). I concede that the speaker may not have been broken-in(shame on the company if that is the case), or that the room was poor. My biggest concern is that the problems I encountered with the speaker were exactly the same as that type of setting would ameliorate. I will however, give the speakers another chance. I am planning to give them another audition. An opportunity for them to change my opinion. As for next year, I plan on submitting another show report. My feeling is that we should all offer up what our impressions were. |
