Dekay, yes, I know. I forgot to mention that I DID eventually go to 100% and the results posted were those observed at that setting. Sorry for the confusion. |
Just a clarification of my last post. I think what I may have observed re symphonic playback was psychological. I don't see how volume settings on the PL could affect dynamics in this setup. BTW, I'm auditioning a used Cary Audio Rocket 88 Tuesday. I don't know what to expect comparing it to the PL but I'll report my findings. |
Thanks, Grinnell. I really like these speakers and, so far at least, am pretty happy with the combination as described. I seldom listen at volumes that most would consider loud so, perhaps can keep the PL Prologue One. I currently have the preamp volume level set at 10 o'clock and the Prologue set at 9. Just to see what the results would be, I cranked the pre up to what I would call very loud. Because I heard no clipping, does this mean that the amp and speakers these speakers are compatible? I know that there are features built into their later models which make them somewhat more desirable but I'm wondering if there is any significant sonic difference. |
Yes, Al, I took your previous explanation to heart and found that the best example of dynamic range in my favorites collection Is I n the overture from Tannheuser relative to the relatively quiet lead in to the overwhelming brass. The range in this case, using an SPL meter, was about 50 dB starting at about 48. With the current setting on the Prologue the max volume is about 103 for this piece which is way more than I could take for very long. However, it sounded pretty accurate. Also, I reviewed the charts you referred to and the sensitivity is substantially lower than advertised and consistent with your previous comments. It's a disappointment but I can get by with it until I decide where to go next. I'm impressed with what Ive read about other PL amps and am tending toward staying with this manufacturer with one or another of their models, perhaps a dedicated power amp. For the music and volumes that I most listen to the current setup is quite satisfying. BTW, the mention of the clock dial setting was part of what the previous owner recommended to avoid clipping. In messing with various settings and volumes I've not been able to hear any so far.
Delay, thank you and I'm sure what you're saying makes good sense to those who have a better technical understanding of these things but I need a little more explanation to get my head around it. Also, what makes it a little more difficult is the fact that, right or wrong, I've always avoided maxing any controls thinking that that was an area where undesirable things start to happen. One thing I tried was to take that setting up to about 3 o'clock on the Prologue and at one point in a fairly loud playback I got a somewhat boomy sound of a lower mid frequency. Lowering the pre strength cured the anomaly
Steakster, it's good to hear that you had success with a similar setup and I thank you for sharing it. The bottom line here, I suppose, is that I truly like both the MMC's and the Prologue but I want to maximize within the constraints of my budget, of course, and need to decide which component to concentrate on. The most obvious or practical solution may be to find a more sensitive speaker. |
Dekay, thanks, I understand now and it makes sense. Atmasphere, thanks for the advice but having just bought the ML Ethos speakers, the Reference 3 A's, and the Primaluna amp, I'm going to have to consider some less expensive fixes for awhile, at least. |
OK, this is where I find myself with this issue. First, I spoke with a local audio dealer who used to sell the Reference 3A's and he confirmed what I'm reading here. These speakers have a sensitivity of 84-85 at best. That doesn't change how I feel about them, though; coupled with the PrimaLuna Prologue One they are, to me, up there with the best sound I can remember having in my home. I don't want to lose that very comfortable sound but I'm aware of the need of these speakers for more power to accommodate a wider dynamic range that Al has described on several occasions.
I have an opportunity to buy a used Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum for a very fair price which I know has quite a following and I've owned Rogue Audio solid state amps and think very highly of them. My concern is that I might lose something of what the Prologue delivers as regards it's smooth and comfortable sound. As a matter of fact, a local advanced hobbyist said that the Cronus has a noticeably "harsher" sound. Of course that is only one person's observation and one that might be cured with tube changes, I suppose.
Anyway, before I make another potentially questionable purchase, I'd like to hear what you all have to say. Thanks |
Soft is definitely what I prefer. If it's necessary to achieve what I experience with the Prologue in a higher powered amp, I would even trade a little perceived resolution or detail to have it. I'd rather not, of course, but that's how hooked I've become on the so-called tube sound. I don't mean to infer that this type sound can't be achieved with SS, it's just that my research and conversations here lead me to believe that, in a general way, it's most likely to be found with tubes. |
Dekay, I tried what you recommended, turning the PL volume control to 3/4 max and, thankfully, there was no perceptual difference compared to the settings that I originally described, at least in listening to solo guitar and string quartet. If there was a difference between the two settings it is with orchestral music. In this case, and I hope I'm using understandable language, when listening to Tannhauser the increased volume setting seemed to present somewhat better dynamics and an improved stage.
The bottom line is that I'm so attached to the sound of this amp/speaker combo that I don't want to risk losing it in a quest for more power. For example, and as previously discussed, I have a chance to purchase a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum locally at a good price and, although my experience with Rogue hybrids has been very satisfactory, I'm afraid I'll lose what I have come to appreciate with the PL. |
Tubegroover, thanks. I'm very early into this tube amplification quest and appreciate all advice especially when it comes to specific types and brands and what to expect from them. From what I've read and heard, I think you're right, The DeCapos and my speakers do have similar specs. I actually haven't found any shortcomings with these yet and haven't even experienced higher volume issues which was what I've been told to watch out for. My room is about 20X26X9 with my listening position about 16' from the speaker plane. I listen primarily to solo guitar, string quartet, light jazz and occasional orchestral music. I listen at fairly moderate volume.
My reference to attenuation of sound relative to what I'm used to, was not a complaint; I actually find it to be less fatiguing and more comfortable listening. To some extent it's also what I'm looking for in future purchases. Coincidentally, Davide, I actually used the plucked string example to explain the characteristic that described the difference between these two technologies to my wife. As an exaggerated example, I asked her to imagine the difference between plucking guitar strings with a plastic or felt pick.
Even though I'm sure I'll continue with tubes I'm not supporting one technology over another. In this case the decision is quite personal; age related hearing issues persuade me in this new direction as some sounds, especially those with percussive origins, cause me significant discomfort. |
Thanks, Oregonpapa. Over the years I've received and applied much advice from him and would readily listen to whatever he says. However, because of several pricey purchases I've recently made, consideration for purchase will have to be postponed. In the meantime I'll keep researching and listening with what I currently have which, btw, is not an altogether bad thing. |
Atmasphere, I, too found the published specs as 92dB sensitivity but there seems to be a very wide range of reports regarding the efficiency of these things. I was directed to a graph ( don't remember the origin) and it looks, at best, like the sensitivity is in the 84-85dB range. I also spoke with a local dealer who used to sell them who confirms the same thing. One way or the other, this temporary combination of the Prologue One at +/- 30W and the Reference 3A's does seem to work OK at least at lower volumes. |
Today I auditioned the Cary Rocket 88R for about 2 hours in my home and fell in absolute like with them. I was able to compare back and forth with the Primaluna Prologue One. The Prologues sound wonderful but I can't say enough about this 88R; I think I finally understand the meaning of effortless sound reproduction. I've been listening mainly in the triode mode but we went through many genres at low to high volumes back and forth between that and ultralinear and, even at high volumes the cats eyes never seemed to alter.
I like the latitude afforded with this amp, from 4 or 8 ohm out, linear or triode mode, bias adjustment, tube rolling, etc. but I have a lot of experimenting to do toward a more complete understanding of how best to set it up. The one thing I already know, though, is that this pairing of the amp with the Reference 3A's is magical with no doubt that this is the best sound my house has ever heard.
I'm still using the Peachtree Nova as a preamp and may start looking for another pre at some later time, but for the time being, I couldn't be more satisfied....I think. |
