A question on setting VTF :
In a recent adjustment to the wire harness, I decided to pull it closer to the cartridge. The wire harness rests on the front face of the slider. Small adjustment to the harness is necessary as we play records.
The problem I am encountering is setting VTF in this configuration. The slightest tuck on the harness will yield a different reading on the VTF gauge. Measuring VTF at different positions on the platter will yield different readings as well. This presumably is caused by the harness acting on the wand, and thereby changing the weight of the wand + cartridge. The changes in VTF reading can vary from 0.1g to 0.4 g!! And that is a serious problem.
I then pulled the harness to the back which is the more typical position. And even in this position a slight tuck on the harness chances the VTF. Now the variations is in the 0.05 g range. But it is still changing.
I always understood that the harness was acting on the wand, and then the effect is negligible. However, given these measurements, my questions are : As the wand travels across the platter, it seems that the VTF is constantly changing? Is that right? Am I doing something wrong?
|
Ok, Spirit, thanks!
But how do you calibrate? Do you take measurements at outside, middle, and inside platter positions every other day? Do you err on adjusting to a higher VTF ?
Goes without saying, but ‘tis a design flaw.
|
Please post results once Zavfino wires are in place. I would be extremely curious!
I am also having a silver tonearm wire custom made. The wire I ordered is from Aural Harmony. Twisted configuration is how it will be implemented and paired with a battery charged current mode phono preamp. However, the new wires, once completed, may still cause problems. :(
The effect of wire drag on VTF is quite a revelation for me. On the one hand, the arm is tracking with constantly varying VTFs'. On the face of it this should be a disaster. The effect of the stylus on the record must not be good. On the other hand, the listening experience is anything but unpleasant. I guess I am saying I do no hear variable VTF at play, or I do not know how to. This is not to excuse the design flaw. However, a simple solution to mitigate the drag effect has to exist......
|
The wires are threaded through one of the holes in the arm wand. They will invariably touch and assert a force on the wand. As the arm travels across the platter, the force on the wand varies, thus creating a constantly varying VTF. The differential on VTF, according to my measurements is 0.05 g - 0.08 g, between the edge and center of platter.
The solution is to isolate the wires from the wand. Given the nature of the arm, this would be very difficult to achieve. Alternatively, one could use a very light collar to affix the wire to the wand. This should allow for a force of contact that is constant between the wire and the wand. Presumably, this should care of the variable VTF problem. This will of course increase the mass of the arm, but at least its a constant mass. |
@dover Thanks for your input. While noting your caveat for not having seen or use the arm in the flesh, your instinct for the wire harness to rest on the apex of 'L' shape carrier seems a good one. However, it is the travel of the wire after affixing to the top of the carrier that causes problems. It will invariably make unwanted contact with the arm wand down the road. I tried this configuration after reading your post. I believe the wire contact with the carrier also affects the air pressure applied to the arm. In this configuration, the discrepancies in VTF's between outer and inner platter is as high as 1.0g!
The main problem is that the wires are not stiff enough to remain in a fixed position. And as the wires are loose, it will go off balance after a few spin of the records. However, stiffer wires are generally heavier. And they too will go off balance, creating greater havoc.
Right now, the solution is split the wires into right - left sides and co-join them at the pivot point of the wand.
|
@dover Thanks for your thoughts. I am beginning to appreciate one of the virtues of the ET arm regarding wire management / VTF.
Having tried a few applications that involve attachment to the carrier, I am of the opinion that the wire harness should not touch the carrier at all. The carrier is in direct contact with air pressure applied to the arm. Any attachment to the carrier affects its leveling and alters the air pressure asserted to the arm. Any application that touches the carrier in order to secure the wires, be it a plastic tag or a 'flagpole', creates wild discrepancies in the VTF between inner and outer platter. My guess is that the attachments on the carrier alters the air pressure in a far greater extent than the contacts of the wire harness on the wand. Hence I could not get consistent VTF readings even with the cartridge in the same location on the platter. A mere reset of the wand to make another measurement is enough to change the VTF!
As mentioned above, splitting the wires into two and reconnect at the pivot point of the wand seem to create the least damage for now.
|
"As others reported, the extra smoothing tank and stronger pump made a very nice difference. I may do a Hiblow someday, and get the 6 gallon tank running. But for now, I wish I would have spent the extra $$$ sooner and did this right "
@dnicol Very happy that the added surge tank contributed to better SQ.
I am a bit curious as to why your pump cannot work with the 6 gallon tank. For my application, there are four surge tanks / filter connected in series. The surge tanks ( plastic water containers ) are 4 + 20 + 25 litre, so approximately 10.8 gallon in total. The originally supplied Sera pump had no problem pushing through these. And
the sound quality improved
with the addition of each tank, so I am wondering why the 6-gallon tank won't work?
I added a fourth filter consisting of a 3" PVC pipe, 40 cm in length capped at both ends. The addition of this PVC filter caused problems for the Sera, whereupon I switch to a Eheim 400 pump which is still in service.
I would encourage the addition of extra surge tanks. I believe you will be able to hear increased improvement. |
@dover Could you point me to a recommended transformer?
Also, Here is an update on the wire harness / VTF front. I would spin one side of a record to allow the wire to settle. Then comes the VTF measurement with each listening session.There is usually a 0.03 g VTF variation between inner and outer groove. The biggest variable is temperature/ humidity. With a recent cold front coming through our region, adjustments had to be made. But otherwise, the VTF has been very stable.
|
@dover Thanks for the explanation on transformer. I'll consult a local electrician. It's 110v here.
@dnicol Regarding wire harness, I am using a XLR set of wires sent from Andrey. Coming out of the cartridge, it is split into four feather thin wires, two per side of wand. They are co-joined at the pivot point. Would you mind sending me an photo of the way you dress your wire. al dot ho at hohou dot com.I really would like to see how it is done right.
Regarding pressure on the arm, I am adjusting by ear.I have yet to install a pressure gauge. |
@terry9 Fascinating choice for the wand! Panzerholz is reputed to be a very stable wood species. Had you ever considered ebony ( environmental concerns aside )? Is the wand perforated to reduce mass? The tapped alum disc is a nice touch. Would it be possible to link to an image of the wooden wand? Very curious.
Being new to the Terminator, I finally changed cartridge last week from a ZYX Ulitmate 1000, 5g, to a Audio Tekne MC6310, 7-8g ( ?). It was rough going to get the cartridge to track properly. Two issues: One as to do with the wand and the brass counterweights and the second was pump and surge tanks. I had to remove one of the smaller surge tanks to restore enough pressure to allow proper tracking. And while making adjustments, I thought that a stone body Koetsu, 10+g, would be a nightmare to install. More research on pumps and surge tanks required!
@terry9 What kind of issues were you having before the Panzholz wand? A Koetsu Stone will be an eventual purchase for me. I’d appreciate your input. |
@redcars2, Don, thank you for finally posting your adventure here. I eagerly await your input on the Terminator.
Over the weekend, a quick research was done on the Clearaudio TT2 arm(s), I believe, that you are using. It is a roller-bearing in a glass tube design, not air bearing. That’s a big difference, although the pump and surge tanks you’re about to buy should be a good start.
The arm tube in the TT2 and the arm wand in the Terminator are also quite different. While both are made of carbon fiber, the wand is a flat perforated plate. It’s relationship to the tonearm wires is unlike that of the arm tube of the TT2. The wires are threaded through the arm tube in the TT2, if I am not mistaken, very much like a pivot arm arrangement. The wires are exposed, dangling, and not affixed to the wand in the Terminator. The contact of the wires on the wand therefore varies as the arm travels through an LP. This is the varying contact force that I was referring to in earlier posts, hence the varying VTF. I think the VTF issue with the Terminator is a bit different that what you have solved with the TT2.
|
'Another thread discussing K’s leads to the conclusion that the diamond cantilever is the last big jump in the K line, not the stone bodies, which are fine, but relatively less important'
Terry, Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the stone body with the diamond cantilever the end of the line for Koetsu?
'Panzerholz is a trade name for an exotic German plywood: half millimetre slices of beech hardwood embedded in a matrix of phenolic resin. It’s dead, dead, dead."
Got it.
Seriously, Is there anyway you can link a photograph of the panzerholz wand.
'
The Tomahawk wand is good, but wasn’t made for a 12g cartridge. It needs weights and damping material hanging off it, it looks plain messy. Also, on some recordings there appears to be some distortion which won’t go away'
I gathered that the latest carbon fiber wand had not graced your system?
But in terms of mass and damping for a heavier cartridge, carbon fiber probably does help.
|
Don,
I recall you mentioning that your
TT2 will only work with the
Goldfinger, 15 g. And in order to try other cartridges, you decided to try the Terminator. Did I remember correctly? If so, why is the TT2 so restrictive in its cartridge choices?
If you look at a couple of earlier posts, @spiritofmusic mentioned that his mate is ( was ) using a 15 g Goldfinger with the Terminator. Terry's Rosewood Signature Platinum is 9 g. It would be nice for others to chime in regarding cartridges experiences.
"...
but according to one of the
K connoisseurs on this site, stone is a marginal improvement over the platinum rosewood,
while diamond cantilever is a big improvement.'
Terry, I have read similar comments regarding the SQ improvement of the diamond cantilever. Did you send the Rosewood back to Japan for the upgrade? I understand that is the preferred path, acquire the Rosewood Sig. Platinum first, then go for diamond.
|
Terry,
The development of your Panzerholz wand is very informative, that it improves over the Tomahawk. The refinement of the Terminator carries on, first with the carbon fiber wand, and now equally (? ) the Panzerholz. I wonder if a laminate of Panzerholz + CF might not be a further improvement, improving on the stiffness / rigidity of the wand.
Would you consider getting a CF wand and give us a review / impression?
As part of my purchase of the Terminator I asked Andrew to make a custom arm board to accommodate my Verdier TT. It consists of laminated layers of Baltic plywood with a top CF plate. It allows the Terminator to be fastened at two points.
It seems harder for us enthusiasts to work with carbon fiber, but I suspect Andrew would be amenable to producing a custom wand with CF / plywood combo. for heavier cartridges.
|
Terry,
Allowing wood to naturally air dry for a long period of time is the best way for it to settle and stabilize. I know of a woodworker who uses an alternating kiln / air dry process for over a year to prep wood for flooring application.
Just to clarify, you are using a 19mm, 3/4 in, wand that you have epoxied from thinner laminates, correct? From what I understand, Panzerholz is compressed beech ( or birch, or maple ) impregnated in resin. It’s an industrial process whereby the lamination process is as important as the wood. I’m wondering why you chose to use your own epoxy? Why not use ready made 19mm piece? I must be missing something.
in any case, Panzerholz is opening a whole new can of worms for me, following a WTF thread on the subject with great interest. It seems that the base of the Clearaudio Statement TT uses Panzerholz and steel lamination. Interestingly, Clearaudio describes it as ‘ bullet proof wood ‘!
Don,
Are you in in possession of the Terminator? Please report back. Thanks! |
@dnicol,
The timing of your post is uncanny. Prior to last week, I had been playing with a zyx ultimate 100, the entry level cartridge at 5 g - very enjoyable. More importantly it worked very well with the Terminator, I got to experiment with pump, surge tanks...etc without worrying about the compatibility issues, weight, compliance...etc. And it was pure luck.
Last week, I installed a new cartridge, Audio Tekne MC-6310. There is no information on weight or compliance that I could find. I have not measured, but it’s probably 9-10g. I have set the counterweight as far back on the wand as possible using the supplied single copper disc, 5g. The MC is positioned as far out on the other end as possible, tracking at 1.8 g. I thought I had it with the first few days of listening. Then last night, playing a few records ( Bill Evans’ Tokyo and Paris concerts ), the sound became unlistenable, the piano was shrill, soundstage was off...etc. Not until reading your post did I know the problem. This morning I added weights as you described, but in the 5-7g range, not as heavy as where you ended up. And sure enough things began to turn for the better. Records I thought was good have now deeper soundstage, more transparency...etc, and ‘bad’ records are coming around.
My question is how did you arrive at the 12g weight on the cartridge end? I know our cartridges are probably different, hence different compliance. I may not end up where you are. But wondering if you had gone over 12g and found it not to be optimal? |
Terry,
Thanks for the explanation, crystal clear.
As you can see, I am struggling with the CF wand and a 9ish g cartridge. Unless you start making your Panzerholz wand available for the masses, I am with @dnicol, getting by with adding weights. Sigh!
|
UPDATE ALERT!
it seems Vic has been a restless soul in retirement. He has posted a new wand that he claims to extract even more ‘details from the groove’. Frankly, I don’t know what to make of the new wand in light of recent discussions of compliance / weight.
Go to Trans-Fi website, click tonearm, then tomahawk update. |
Don,
It looks like a good month before we’ll get a report from you. Looking forward to it.
@dover
I emailed Vic regarding the new wand. It really is a trampoline! Adjustments of cartridge and counterweight are done by sliding ‘O’ rings. He developed this particular wand to deal with resonance together with a new isolation mat which I don’t see on his website. The first things he said in his reply though was that I should stick with the CF wand if I am happy with it, no need to get the new wand. I too feel there is plenty of questions regarding on efficacy of the new wand. |
Don,
I think 99% of Terminator owners have taken a few inconvenience for granted, e.g. having to wiggle a record out from under the manifold. The swing out arm pod is brilliant! I would never have arrived at that solution. However, with your Clearaudio experience, lifting up and swinging out are bar for the course. My initial reaction was that there are just too many moving parts to my taste. But It seems to to be working fine for you.
My puzzle with VTF remains. I am dressing the wires exactly as you, under the wand and thread through and up at the pivot point. You, of course, have done away with the gantry and employing custom tubing to connect to the phono stage. While you are getting consistent readings, I still getting varying numbers each time I play records. I may make an attempt at your custom VTF garage.
Please update on SQ as you see fit. And again congrats on a very well thought out setup!
|
Don,
The darker blue containers, seems like 20 litre, are surge tanks? There are two connected next to each other, and a third next to the turntable?
You're getting a 6 psi reading out of the pump. Do you have a pressure gauge before the tonearm? I am particularly interested in what the actual pressure reading at the tonearm. While I have a much more rudimentary pump / tank system, I am thinking of installing a gauge between all the surge tanks and the tonearm. The actual pressure to the tonearm should be much lower. If I am not mistaken, @terry9 has his arm set at 0.5 psi. J |
Don,
With the additonal surge tanks, valve, filters,...etc, I had assume that there would be a drop in pressure at the arm. But as you say, it's the sound that matters. I think someone, maybe Terry (?), commented that music sounds livlier at higher pressure. On my previous lighter cartridge, I could almost confirm that.
It's interesting that you have arrived at the same pressue as Terry with the Panzererholz wand, given what I assume are two very different setups. There probably is a pressure range within which the Termintor is comfortable in.
With the ET arm, the range is ( according to Bruce on his web-site ) 3 - 10 psi depending on the pump used, it being a high pressure arm. It is ten times the pressure range that you are experiencing. And apparently at that range, condensation becomes an issue. Living in a very humid environment, I opt for a low flow / pressure arm to avoid the very real potential for condensation. |
'Unfortunately Owen passed away in a cycling accident a couple of weeks ago,..'
OMG !!!!!
It was Owen's posts and his custom arm board for the Terminator that convinced me to take the plunge and adopted the arm. We exchanged emails a couple of times. He was always gracious in his reply.
What a strange day this has turned out to be with such a sad news. The fragility of life is all around us.
|
@dover It’s funny your mentioning high humidity in NZL. I had the impression, mistaken of course, that it was cold and dry down under ( all those Lord of The Rings movies ). I just checked and relative humidity in the 70’s - 80’s, similar to where I am! BTW, I follow a NZL blog started by this guy, Owen, Dark Lantern, https://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/. He is an advocate for the Trans - Fi Terminator. Learnt a lot from the site. I get the sense that there are quite a few adopters of the Terminator over there. I would think the same for the ET arm? |
Don,
Buying a second Terminator certainly is a resounding endorsement!
We all have come to the Terminator from other branded, more expensive, highly touted...etc. arms. For one reason or another bought the Terminator as a cost effective way to experience the linear tracking tonearm ( for me ) or to experience other cartridges ( for you ). The thinking was that if the Terminator did not work out, it was no real loss. And if it did, it would be a stepping stone to other, 'higher level', arms. What is unexpected is just how revealing an instrument the Terminator really is. And now you are buying more while I continue to improve on what I have.
Partly inspired by your incredible back-of-the-house heroics with custom valves, gauges, ..etc and my continued issues with my new cartridge, I started to replace compressors, add surge tanks, and insert measuring gauge to be more precise with setup. I will have more to share in the coming days.
Questions for you, the GFS is 15g. Are there any special weights and/or counter-weights added? The CF wand is working okay? Any problems with the heavy cartridge? |
Don,
I did pay attention to the gauge you employed, 0-3 psi. Unfortunately, for us in the metric universe, the smallest gauge I was able to obtain is 1 kg /cm2 or 14 psi. I have a 0-3 psi and 0-5 psi gauge on order. The reading I am getting obviously is not well calibrated, in the 0.75 psi region. I took a pressure reading at the tonearm end, and the gauge barely moved, so I am guessing in the 0.1 psi region.
With the gauge, I can begin to answer the question posed during an earlier post on the relationship between increased pressure and surge tanks. The simple answer is that the Terminator operates at around 0.1 - 0.5 ( ? ) psi taken at the tonearm end regardless of the amount of output pressure at the compressor end. Once the 0-3 psi gauge arrives, I’ll be able to be more precise.
|
Over the past week, I followed old threads on the Terminator from the forum Lenco Heaven. Apparently there were quite a few early adopters of the arm circa 2009, pre - Tomahawk days. I’d like to share a few interesting notes:
1. Vic designed a custom wand for the SPU during the early days. This is a 30g cartridge, mind you. While it was not plug-n-play, the written, Daiwok, eventually got it to sing. That’s 30g !
2. There was a summary of the pressure levels required for the various linear trackers, e.g. The Rockport and the Kuzma operate in the 35 psi region, ET-2s’ around 5 psi, and The Terminator, MG -1, and other low pressure arms, less than 1 psi . This correlates with the actual useages of Don and Terry. Having received my 0-3 psi gauge, I am operating in the 0.5 psi range.
3. Additional Surge tanks and air filtration are required to get the best out of the Terminator. And this does not mean just running long hoses. What is required are devices to modulate, damp, and minimize the air pulsation of the compressor.
4. Daiwok had done extensive comparisons between the Terminator and other top grade arms. At one point he had a Rockport ( not sure which model ) in his listening den. And according to him, putting the Terminator/ Lenco PTP in the ring did not produce a Rockport knockout.
The above observations were from 2009 - 2010. Here we are at 2021. Don is the most recent adopter of the Terminator with positive results. I know this has been said before, but the Terminator has to be one of the audio gems with a bargain basement price to boot!
|
Terry, Congrats on the success of the Panzerholz wand. It looks like your are getting very comfortable with it. FYI, the link below shows a pre-Tomahawk wand carrying an Ortofon SPU : https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=1539.0. I recall reading that there are maybe a thousand Terminators in circulation. The figure seems high to me. I think there are less than fifty Air-tangents in the world. |
Over the past month I had gotten back into refining the air regulation arena, partly inspired by Don @redcars and Terry. The additions of gauge and surge tanks have provided some numerical data points. I am able to make the following observations:
1. The starter kit:
The supplied Sera 220 pump and a 1 gallon surge tank should be considered the most basic kit that will allow the proper operation of the Terminator. The Sera 220 has a max pressure output of less than 1 psi and a 4 liter / min flow. The actual air pressure at the manifold is probably as low a 0.1 psi - 0.3 psi.
The addition of surge tanks and air filters is I think fundamental in improving the performance of any air-bearing linear tracking tonearm. The terminator sounds very good with the starter kit, but it will only improve will better air filtration, modulation, and damping. The purpose is to minimize as much as possible the air pulsation produce by the compressor. The glider that carries the wand with the attached cartridge should operate in as close to a 'friction-less' bed of air cushion as possible.
2. The signature Kit
Taking the cue from Terry, I began last year to introduce more filtration in the form of additional plastic surge tanks. With the initial addition of a 20 liter tank, the improvement to sound quality was immediate. More detail, more stable sound-stage, ..etc. And then came an additional 20 liter tank as well as a 4" pipe capped at both ends acting as a air filter. The sound quality improved further. With the last addition I had come to the limit of what the Sera 200 can pump out.
The 'signature' kit consists of a compressor that can put out at least 3-5 psi. The usual suspect is a Hiblow hp 40, max 5 psi with 44 liter / min flow. I am using a Hiblow clone, Alita, with the same specification. I have a total volume of 80 liter worth of surge tanks. And the pressure out of the compressor is at 1.25 psi. Both Terry and Don have pressure levels at 0.3 - 0.7 psi. The reason for my high pressure level has to with the type of tubing and the total volume of surge tanks.
It is possible to add more air filtration ( which I intend to do ), the limit being the output of the compressor. How much sound improvement with the increase yield ? When is the point of diminishing return ? These question I do not have answers to. However, given that the Terminator operates in a low-pressure environment, I think it is possible to extract a bit more. If on the other hand we use a Air-Tangent of Kuzma Airline where the operating pressure is around 35 psi, then the use of even more powerful compressors may be prohibitive for domestic use. I believe this is one of the main advantage of a low pressure air bearing LT arm. It is more accommodating to air modulation. And in LT arm, increased air filtration is really one of the important factors in maximizing its sound quality.
In the most recent Analog Corner segment in Stereophile, there is a reprint of Framer's 2019 review of a linear tracking pivot arm, Klaudio's KD-ARM-AG12. He commented with respect to this arm that "the tangential possession is misguided". I am of the opinion that there is not necessary a clear advantage of linear tracking vs pivot arm. And the Terminator is always thought of by me as a highly musical, utterly under-valued and under-appreciated arm that happens to be tangential tracking. Given what it is, then maximizing its air filtration potential should really be on every Terminator users' to-do list. |
Marc,
Thanks for that input. And Andrey is carrying on the mantle, so hitting a thousand should be a matter of time. |
I wondered if any Terminator owners have been in contact with Andrey in Moscow? He is not returning emails.
I would like to order a few carbon wands.
Thanks!
|
@pindac Thanks for the reply.
I had an accessary sent from Russia to me in 2022 and it took two months through its postal service. With the War on, I did not expect a reply from Andrey.
Anyone has an unused carbon fiber wand for sale ?
|
