Trans Fi Salvation direct rim drive turntable


Hi A'goners, I've just bought this turntable, confident it'll be my last upgrade. The rest of my system is a Tom Evans Groove Plus SRX phono stage, EMM Labs CDSA SE cd player, Hovland HP200 pre/Radia power amps, Zu Definitions Mk 4 loudspeakers, so a pretty good way to listen to vinyl.

Over the years, since 1995 I've progressed from a Roksan Xerxes/Artemiz/Shiraz, via a Michell Orbe/SME V/Transfiguration Orpheus, finally ending up last week with my new Trans Fi Salvation/Trans Fi T3Pro Terminator/Zu modded Denon 103.

This turntable (£2500 UK price, approx $4000-$5000 US) is the brainchild of Vic, a retired dentist, who, fed up with the shortcomings of belt drive and traditionally-pivoted tone arms, literally from the ground up devised first the Terminator air bearing linear tracking tone arm (now in T3Pro guise as on my system), and now the direct rim drive Salvation turntable, a technology in direct opposition to the hegemony of belt drive we've come to accept from the '70s.

In summary, he has developed a motor that directly rim drives an oversize platter. The magic is that vibrations are drained away from the platter and hence stylus. So minimal rumble is transmitted, the weakness of Garrards/Lencos in the past. This is mated to a substantial slate plinth which does a great job of isolating the whole rig from external vibrations.

Where this differs from direct drive is that the torque applied is high enough to counteract stylus drag, but it is strictly analogue controlled ie no digital feedback applying constant micro speed control. Speed is set correctly, torque is sufficient, and speed stability is like a rock.

This is combined with his air bearing linear tracking arm, discussed on other threads.

So technical description over, how about how it sounds? Well, years ago I always assumed the overhang in bass when playing lps on my previous belt drive/pivoted arm tts, apparent as a benign artifact, was all part of the 'romance' of vinyl, esp. when compared to the dry, clinical sound of early cd. But in 2007 I acquired the EMM cd, which had a natural analogue sound playing silver discs, but none of this bass colouration. On studying the growing reemergence of idler/direct drive, and their superiority in maintaining speed stability, I agreed that the belt speed instability might be introducing this.

Two years ago I came across Vic, and now I can report that eliminating the belt for high torque rim drive has taken this whole artifact out of the equation. Whole layers of previously masked information like rhythm guitars are now present, treble information has abundant naturalness and decay, and bass, which appears to be less in quantity compared to belt, is actually more accurate with a real start-stop quality, much more like digital, and the real thing. The other positives are more linked to the arm, including uncanny tracking across the whole record side; I'm really not exaggerating in saying that the last few grooves at the end of an lp side are as solidly reproduced as the first. Music with strong dynamic contrasts are really served well by the Salvation, and I am shocked at how good this all is after trepidation that the sound might be hyperdetailed but too assertive etc. In fact music is reproduced with a relaxed incision, and a welcoming detailed transparency.

The amazing thing is that all of this is not in anyway at the expense of the natural warmth and tonal dimensionality that still puts vinyl way ahead of any digital (imho).

The only thing, and Vic would like this to be known, is that his creation is a cottage industry, and he can only produce limited numbers to order.

I'm happy to answer qs on it, as I really want our community to know about a possible world beating product at real world prices. My tech knowledge will be limited, but no problem discussing sound quality issues.

I'm not affiliated in anyway to the product, just sold my Orbe on ebay and bought this. Regards to all
spiritofmusic

Showing 23 responses by harold-not-the-barrel

There´s barely any contact left. "You will notice with the magnets, there is effectively no point of contact now between the platter & plinth."
Please read the Salvation Updates.

"The sonic benefits are enormous". I surely believe him as I´m experimenting maglev with my bearing as well and getting excellent results.
Dover, I appreciate your honest testimony/review and thus confirming The Verdier´s ability as a true class TT. I never doubted it though, namely due to true maglev (non-thrust pad).
Following your logic, from SP10Mk3/LO7D and The Verdier to The Final Audio VTT-1 the question is: where would we put The Salvation ?
... oh dear, where it did lead... I´m running a non-suspended & heavily soapstoned TT would you believe.

A new life ! What a surprice, this sounds fantastic !
Dear Spirit, now I understand what you mean by Salvation direct rim drive TT sound quality.

I´m really stoned, I mean soapstoned ;)
Dear Lewn, Very good ! Let´s think that more closely... The platter actually contacts the plinth thru the spindle in any turntable. There is a way to transport mechanical energy from the plinth thru the spindle thru to the platter thru to the Salvation motor and visa versa. Now with the maglev the chain is practically broaken, in some extent anyway. This affects the sound significantly, eventually so much that this mod takes the already excellent sound quality of Salvation to a higher level. Vic says the magnetic field between the rings is very solid & strong and there is absolutely no wobbling. The sound is very convincing both in micro & macro dynamics. Guided by Vic himself yesterday I managed to improve the magnetic/nylon pushings spindle implementation with my TT. Result is truly astonishing. My future will float in a magnetic field, quite literally ;-)

Sorry my clumsy review, I´m not an expert. Greater minds than mine will explain the phenomenon closely...
Hello Spirit

Congrats for your intelligent choices for the analog rig
and glad to meet a kindred spirit !

I have enjoyed Terminator since 2008. Vic has raised my DELPHI to new heights by the Reso-Mat and the Salvation motor.

I am ready to take another leap to a new territory too !
But I need your guidance to start my venture.

Do you use the SS Straingauge cart alone or with the Straingauge pre-amp ? Can I just use the cart alone ?
Does the cart have a different tonal balance compared to regular carts, or is it the same when used without the pre-amp ? Does the pre-amp change the tonal balance ?

Cheers
Harold
Hi Spirit

Thanks for info, I got the point: I don´t need a SG preamp either.
But I need an energiser box. I have no idea of it, is it a pre-preamp ? Please enlighten me.

The SG cart is the best you have ever heard in your analob rig, that´s really interesting as I do understand the superiority of your TT/arm unit.

I have considered buying the Salvation TT many times !
It´s the culmination of an isolated non-floating subchassis turntable I feel for sure.

I chose a different path: to stabilize the susbended mass on the already fantastic suspension and place the Terminator to a separate armpod.

After Vic´s mod to my DELPHI I`m very positive to take these leaps forward again. With Vic´s help I will complete them soon and see where that path leads !

Cheers
Dear Lewn, You already have 2 truly exceptional & legendary DD TTs. I personally am VERY interested in hearing what would you say about the Salvation direct rim drive TT compered to those classics ;-)
The contact between the rim drive and the platter truly is critical. Actually so critical like a line drawn on water (sorry my clumsy expression). I can sure you that the Salvation motor (an implementation for my TT) that I´m currently running works just fine, it does not add noise when precisely adjusted. Now with the maglev bearing (that I´m also using at the moment) the noise level is even more reduced. Any mechanical bearing is noisy, in some extent. I think the Salvation really minimize both noises.
I just can´t stop thinking that the Salvation TT, and especially with the Terminator airbearing TA is truly the greatest bargain in modern TT technology, for any price IMHO.
Dear Redglobe, You took the words right out of my mouth.
This is Spirit´s thread, let´s respect his opinions as a hobbyist. I think he is a very honest analog lover and it´s his right to praise his rig. I personally have run a Terminator for years now but don´t have experienced a Salvation TT, just it´s motor. With my humble deck it´s a keeper.
Dentdog, I started with a Thorens (TD 321) 26 years ago and am now running a Salvation like TT/Terminator combo. My journey to my analog nirvana took 26+ years after having spent a hell of a lot money along the way, yours took, I guess just a moment, LOL.
Damn well done ! You just saved a fortune ;)
Dear Lewn, I didn´t know that the L-07D has a hybrid bearing, like Clearaudio´s ? Fine. Very interesting. No wonder Dave the Messenger prefers his L-07D over his heavily modded TNT. The L-07D must sound fantastic. Please tell more.
Dear Lewn, Thanks for your very informative answer, now I understand what exactly is the Kenwood maglev: it´s like Clearaudio´s. After my very recent experience I also exactly understand what´s happening in the bearing, both mechanically and sonically. Very rigid link between TA pivot and bearing, despite its "partly" maglev. The maglev takes most of the platter´s weight, but not all. Hard metal tip´s contact to thrust pad is still very solid, so basically it´s a mechanical bearing. Must sound fantastic. Congrats.

However, one can´t stop Evolution as it keeps on going...
The Salvation maglev is an antithesis to any mechanical bearing, as far as I know. And this kinda true maglev quite literally takes the whole idea of TT bearing to higher level. I´m running this kind of a maglev, my implementation is different but the end result, both technically and sonically is basically just the same.
However, I must point out that the heavy Salvation platter compared to my lighter platter gives even more better performance. I fully understand this without having not listened to Vic´s TT.
The answer lies in a very dense & thus strong magnetic field.
This makes platter´s spinning very solid, there´s absolutely no wobbling, even in the microscopic level, I feel for sure after having heard this in my own system. I can assure that I must use much force to apply pressure on the spindle and it certainly does not keep bouching up & down after a push.


Evolution has come to the point that we are facing a new world in Analog Audio. This is as revolutionary as Einstein´s theory of Relativity a hundred years ago. A new idea, a new world. Welcome to 2014´s physics ;)

Oh yes, and astronomers just found gravitational particles. The Universe is much larger than we have known so far `Ö´
Dentdog, Wise you saved your old albums. So did I and am very addicted to vinyl, just recently. The Salvation is more than a turntable. Vic have invented an analog time machine, to go for a journey back in time. ;) What a great pleasure, isn´t it. Especially the Golden Age. Digital still has a hard job to outperform good old Analog, despite its 3 decades evolution.
Dear Lewn, I have never taken acid, not even in the wild seventies... I don´t need it. Music itself has been my nectar since little boy ;) And I have never before been so confident about my TT. The Salvation maglev simply nails it. This is the breakthrough in my system after all these years.
And you are absolutely right, now it´s time to celebrate !
I´ll have a drink on all magnificent Kenwood and all Salvation TTs. Cheers !

Excuse me clumsy English as it´s not my mother language. I´ll try to explain later the function of the Salvation maglev how I see it. It´s very hard, like Theory of Relativity. D
Dear Lewn, J.C. Verdier introduced La Platine 30+ years ago, right ? It´s maglev is basically the same as Vic´s, it´s vastly bigger and the spindle is fatter for a very heavy platter, it´s just a different implementation ? Also Kenwood/Clearaudio type hybrid bearing is available. Fine. We all understand that a perfect magnetically isolated spindle does not exist due to instability of the magnetic field in the horizontal plane.

Now this kind of maglev, both Verdier´s and Vic´s, is a true maglev. The inverted sleeve bearing is oiled, actually that thin oil layer separates the metallic/delrin/nylon surfaces. Please note that the vertical very strong magnetic field takes most of the weight. The spindle is touching its environment very slightly thru oil layer. The tolerances must be very small to achieve extreme smooth spinning though. And the spindle actually does not touch the pushings inside the spindle well, just oil layer. So La Platine started all this ? No wonder why so many Platine owners here in AudiogoN Universe are happy with the maglev as such. Hats off to Monsieur Verdier.
I´m glad you will buy a Salvation ;)
Actually I was referring to this La Platine by an Agoner:
http://cgim.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/vs.pl?vevol&1301604425&viewitem&o3

I would take his TT very seriously.
Lew is right: the mass ratio of platter/base could be inverse. So I would put the whole TT on metal spikes and a very heavy slate. But wouldn´t touch the maglev.
Thekong, I think you haven´t experienced the maglev Salvation ? It would be interesting to hear the maglev instead, wouldn´t it ?
No wonder, Vic is a magician.
After my own maglev for the platter I have no doubts about the benefits of maglev feet as well. I told him that I want to levitate my plinth too and I suggested that he could make me brass feet with ring magnets. Vic wanted to try prototype delrin feet first with a different shaped plinth... so he made 3 delrin feet with opposing magnets so that I can use maglev with my plinth.
I will receive them next week and report my experience...
Me ? I´m just a lawnlower.

I´m glad to hear your testimony on the latest implementation in the mighty Salvation TT, the extraordinary maglev feet. My delrin maglev feet have arrived to harbour, hardly can wait for the courier to come knocking at my door. May God bless him. This all is really getting exciting, I wonder how I manage to get sleep at night...
Spirit & all,
The biggest impvt changes have been in order of precedence 1st air bearing TA, 2nd direct rim drive TT in my analog rig. The maglev bearing is the dot of it, actually another very serious impvt. It simply works fabulously.
The sound is so convincing in everything that it keeps me rushing home from work to spin-up my records. It has no major issues. I´m just enjoying sound quality.
Some records sound a bit harsh though. Actually I´m hoping that the maglev feet would tame this harshness if it´s due to incompleteness of the deck´s ability to the control the resonances that are reaching cartridge, of course. Otherwise this harshness is a recording/pressing issue.
What I´m expecting from this new tweak in order of precedence is 1st impvt in bass quality & quantity and 2nd some notes more in mids and highs. Beeing realistic I´m not expecting too much (hopefully).
I´ve the magnets and delrin feet in my hands and the deck is awaiting in my workshop. This weekend will really be something else...
Spirit, I encountered fierce magnetic forces in the horizontal plane but with a little help from Ethel, my assistant we tamed them. However, we had a minor drawback. The mission failed. The last feet was relatively easy to adjust but the magnets proved to be too weak. Vic send me a pair of stronger magnets and they will arrive in a couple of days. I will tell more...
Strange things happening, I´m having serious difficulties in sending my URLs, seems they don´t quite work elsewhere anymore and can´t go thru. A message from a fellow Agoner:
"For some reason I couldn't get either of your URLs to work. It might have something to do with the space-time continuum, or perhaps a glitch in my internet connection or that pesky virus"... or are we living in paraller universes and the bridge between our worlds is about to break... maybe we all live in paraller multiversum ? This may very well be my last message...
I received message from Dentdog ! There is still a connection between the worlds :)

Yes the balanced maglev feet do the trick ! Improve bass quality for sure but also refine all areas in some extent. A very serious impvt. And yes, remove harshness on certain recordings, this is the biggest thing about the maglev feet really. The maglev feet simply improve macro & micro dynamics.
This obviously leads to another thing: some cartridges seem to benefit more of this revelation of detail more than others. Again, everything must in a perfect balance, leveling the platter & manifold/saddle, cart´s azimuth etc. I´m very close to having found the sweet spot of my TT system.

It´s really hard to believe that punk ever happened in 1976 as I saw GENESIS LIVE music very live & kicking in Helsinki earlier in spring 2014. In a small venue me and my friend went back to 1973 lead by maestro Steve Hackett & his friends on his GENESIS LIVE REVISITED EXTENDED tour and we found ourselves shouting for "Knife !". I closed my eyes and the illusion being in a GENESIS gig was perfect. Nearly 3 hours of old GENESIS music without a break and a single dull moment. The original GENESIS LIVE sound was born again in modern World. The best concert I ever witnessed and will remain forever... unless they will do it again ?  In my universe prog reigned in 1976 and still does today in 2016... till the End of Time.

Happy New Year