Well, there's only one negative wrt this tt/arm: it's so good that it's seriously outclassing my digital (EMM Labs CDSA SE).
With my previous belt drive Orbe/SME V, much as i still put lp ahead of cd, there were so many occasions where digital was undoubtedly better than analogue, especially in the areas of neutrality (lack of artificial midbass warmth) and stability of soundstage (esp. lack of wavering of piano notes and end of side distortion).
But now I believe I've retained all that makes analogue so seductively better than digital, and added to the mix many of the positive attributes inherent in digital.
The end result is...I need to upgrade my digital, GRR! Any how I have an idea of a player that may really bridge the quality gap of digital to analogue. |
Well after a lot of research on the web, I believe I may have found 3 players that will get me close to analogue-like satisfaction. Out of my price range is the Stahl Tek Vekian and Opus lines. But more affordable are the Neodio NR22 and Eera Tentation. From what I can glean of these players, they may be well ahead of much costlier options in discriminating tonally between recordings, eliminating the homogeneity and 'whiteness' so endemic across the majority of digital.
I'm always so dismayed that I have to turn the volume up when playing cd due to it's lack of presence compared to analogue, but when I do, the thinness of the soundstage then gets magnified. Also I hate that a digital smoothness gets superimposed on all recordings, leading to a false uniformness of sound between different discs.
The Neodio and Eera seem to avoid these pitfalls. |
Redglobe, I'll be contacting Vic next week, I'll keep you posted.
I see others are enjoying their NVS dd tt's for 8x price of the Salvation, I'll keep enjoying mine at a real world price to achieve sonic nirvana! |
Pete, the Terminator linear arm had been sold for a number of years prior to the Salvation tt being perfected. There are hundreds of the arm on non Trans Fi tts. I'm not to sure in reverse if many Salvations are set up other than with the Terminator, however. But, it would be possible to do so.
I have often thought what proportion of the near state of the art performance is wrought by the arm only, and how much by the tt. However I'm so happy with the combination I'm not too bothered by the answer. There is no doubt that a great synergy is going on allowing the full bloom of analogue to be maximised while introducing a whole new presentation of neutrality normally reserved for good digital. |
Redglobe, Vic is away on holiday, and will reopen his Ebay shop on his return. |
It's interesting Pete to hear analogue presentation which encompasses a lot of the neutrality of digital, serving only to make lp replay even further ahead of the game than cd, than my old tt, which in many respects was well behind the pace of my cdp.
Xoverless spkrs are only adding to the realistic tonality on offer, and balanced power is eliminating restrictions to the dynamics of the presentation.
Other than possible cart/phono stage/cabling upgrades, I think I'm getting there.
Stylus retipping/cantilever upgrading to my Transfiguration Orpheus and Zu Denon 103 carts are next on the agenda, plus demo of Tom Evans Mastergroove phono, and as a contrast, the Soundsmith Straingauge SG200 cart, which dispenses with a phono stage. |
Zu Denon 103 and Transfiguration Orpheus just sent off for stylus retip/cantilever upgrades. Likely to be some time.
Fascinated to see how my game changing tt/arm will either accentuate or close the gap in sound quality btwn one cart which is a world beater with a price to match, and one which is a giant killer, but in some ways a better all around performer than it's pricier partner.
This comparison will tell me a lot more about the possible performance envelope of current setup, and what is ultimately possible from analogue. |
Would love to hear the NVS/Telos, but there are no opportunities outside the US, so a bit of a dead end for me. Still in awe of what my Salvation/Terminator can do at the very bottom end of the price scale (c10% the cost of the NVS/Telos), and other than cart considerations (will be investigating the Straingauge in the Spring), finally have a real feeling of ease listening to vinyl, and not being aware of the usual analogue artifacts (enhanced artificial warmth etc., wavering of suspended notes etc.). I've coined this "lack of cognitive dissonance", and finally I have it in my analogue front end. |
No disrespect Himiguel, but you continually extol the virtues of grounding, saying no component/system can sound anywhere near it's best without addressing this aspect of noise elimination. You may be right, but I feel you should reveal you sell such solutions. I really feel these boards should be for enthusiasts with no affiliations to share their experiences. Dealers, fair enough, but reveal your bias.
I'm naturally skeptical of anyone not doing so, esp. when comments from you always seem to criticise other excellent engineering solutions to the same problems (eg your dismissal that my pro studio 8kVA balanced power transformer can be comparable to your products).
We all value the information, not the hard sell. |
Further thoughts on the Salvation/Terminator. It's providing a really neutral platform to assess carts/phono stages by.
I'm finding that the inherent tonality and bass texture of carts like the ESCCo modded Zu Denon 103 and Lyra Parnassus really shine on this rig, whereas other top end MCs like the Transfiguration Orpheus and Lyra Skala are demonstrating an uninviting matter of factness to their sound despite the extra detail dug out by the combination of tt/arm/cart.
Still contend this tt/arm is the greatest giant killer in audio, providing the biggest bang for buck anywhere. IMHO. |
Hi Pete, it seems we regularly square up against each other on these boards. Hope you're not a lot bigger than me, lol!
Despite our pinning flags to different masts (drive systems), I'm sure we agree on more than we disagree.
I have to say wavering and artificial warmth was a lot less present on the '30 (and TW Acustic AC3) than my previous Michell Orbe, but I was still aware of a flavour of belt drive. This was in stark relief when hearing it's total absence on the Salvation. But I would have to concur that my current tt might lack the kind of warmth that would be unacceptable for many other listeners. Ironically I became more aware of my aversion to euphonic warmth not in comparing the Orbe to the Salvation, but on my system improving so much that digital took precedence in providing a more neutral presentation than analogue. Only by moving away from belt drive was I able to bridge the gap, and then move past it as the Salvation gave me all the neutrality of digital with rediscovered correct analogue tonality.
But I know I'd have been pretty content had I settled on the '30. |
My previous tt was a performer that punched above it's weight, belt drive, suspended type. But I was always aware of a seeming excessive warmth in the sound - rounded transients and slight smear in the timing domain. This was in the Orbe, and my previous Roksan Xerxes 10 and Linn Sondek LP12. And I was always aware of some wavering of notes esp. decay of piano chords. As I became more at home with digital, these attributes became more jarring. Listening to the '30 etc, much was eliminated (non-suspended designs, vibration isolation thru overengineering) but still felt some euphonic warmth wasn't fully dealt with.
TBH, I had no real expectations of the Salvation, indeed skepticism that the drive was critical in this. Hence my major suprise that what I believe to be time domain issues were almost fully eliminated. I really do hear piano as solid as cd. And what could have been a sterile end result is quite the opposite, unobscured tonality now blooms fully when listening to lps with no smearing leading to detail obscuring warmth.
Now, I have to admit that many aspects of the rig are different as well (non-suspended, use of slate/Aluminium over acrylic, and most importantly of all, air bearing linear tracking arm) meaning that a strict comparison is impossible. And I'm sure that fanatical attention to engineering and materials to provide an inert environment for the cart as in the '30 provides an excellent end result beyond my more modest Orbe prev.
All I know is that I really do believe I'm hearing a more 'truthful' representation of what's in the grooves, and this is is in no small part due to the choice of drive technology. |
What I love about the Salvation/Terminator is that it is really synergising beautifully with a cart at the bottom end of the price range for quality MCs - the Zu Audio modded Denon 103. With a stylus and cantilever upgrade by ESCO, it comes out at 25% the price of my previous reference Transfiguration Orpheus, but trumps it for pure tonality and enjoyment.
So I really believe I have a top performing analogue front end right at the bottom end of the price scale for top tts. |
So, in analogue Heaven now. Salvation/Terminator mated with the ESCCo modded Zu 103. Finally I've found the analogue front end I'm going to be happy to be keeping.
Aiming only now to investigate Tom Evans Audio Design Groove Plus SRX to Tom's flagship Mastergroove, to really maximise what's coming tru this fantastic rig. |
Hi Peter, yes, the Salvation/Terminator is providing that stable platform. The fascinating thing is that I consider them to be the most 'neutral' components in my system, and with the right cartridge provides a fantastically exciting sound. Strangely enough the one thing the Orpheus has always been classed as is 'neutral', so what's going on here? Surely one can't have enough of 'neutral'.
Personally, maybe 'neutral' means 'transparent'. Here, the Salvation/Terminator really provides an open window to the recording via the cartridge. But the Orpheus in conjunction doesn't really do so, sounding flat and uninviting. So maybe the Orpheus' is uncoloured but not transparent. Interesting, inasmuch that the ESCCo Zu 103 cart could never be called uncoloured, I believe it reveals all the way thru a recording, being allowed to do so by the tt/arm. And hence is not as uncoloured but more 'transparent'.
And before I confuse myself further, ha ha, I'll sign off! |
I'm gradually changing my mind on the ESCCo modded Zu 103 thru the Salvation/Terminator. It's really proving to be an even handed cart thru this most neutral of platforms, with the slight caveat that it doesn't have the last percent of detail retrieval or soundstaging compared to my Transfiguration Orpheus. And even this is a marginal deficit at most. What's undeniable in my system is that it's the clear winner in tonality, dynamics, PRaT, and overall listener involvement/excitement. All measures of excellent transparency.
But this I believe is really counterbalanced by true listener involvement that I'm not getting from carts at 4-8x the price. Echos of the extreme VFM that the tt/arm is already providing.
My last cart comparison is going to be with the Soundsmith Straingauge, but this will have to provide a really compelling alternative to the ESCCo Zu 103 to make me actively switch. |
Radicalsteve and Lewm, why are you talking about the Trio on a Trans Fi thread? I don't doubt it's a great tt, but your discussion needs to be on it's own, or a non belt, thread. I'm trying here to promote to the audio world an amazing overperforming, underpriced marvel of the analogue world. |
Lewm, promote in this case means 'encouraging the flourishing of' the Salvation, not neccesarily 'encouraging the sales of' said item (check dictionary.com), although I believe it deserves to. So, a subtle, but important, use of the English language.
Sorry you think I'm a bit shrill here, in fact the designer often tells me to stop wasting my time on such forum boards, and I don't believe he's actually had specific sales as a result of my words.
My comment to you was bringing discussion of the Trio with no reference to the subject of the thread. If there was a discussion on eg Krell amps and mention was made of another make eg Dartzeel, but not as a comparison or other relevant connection, I don't quite see the point. But that's just me.
Sorry also you feel the thread is boring - no need to stress this quite so strongly. And if it is, why spend any time on it?
My wish is only to promote (yes, that word again) a true giant killer in the world of audio, in technical, sound quality and VFM terms.
Just felt the audio world might like to hear about it. |
Just made my final component change in analogue which is letting me totally be "in the moment" - running a Soundsmith Straingauge Mk2 cart on the Salvation/Terminator.
I've always loved analogue but have been aware of it's flaws, time domain smear issues due to belt drive timing variations, tangency issues re inaccuracies in pivoted arm geometries across the lp, and tracking issues from many carts.
Rim drive tt is giving me rock solid timing with no smear or drift, linear tracking arm is giving me uniformity of sound across the whole lp side...and now the Soundsmith is tracking like a bloodhound, with amazing dynamic range, tonal shading and PRaT, and relegation of surface noise.
Finally, a medium that has the potential to be totally superior to digital, but is often hamstrung by it's own engineering hurdles has been transformed in my system to a constantly digital-busting performer with no colourations or artifacts that I can perceive. I can finally say I'm not "aware" of the medium, just the message. |
Thekong, I totally concur. I haven't made a direct a-b in my system with other top tts, I've had to listen to top tts in a variety of different setups, so the comparison is maybe unfair.
I was ready to drop some serious money on an SME 20 or TW Acustic AC3, but it says something for this tt that I chose it over more celebrated brands.
Convinced the synergy between tt and arm makes a big difference.
But I'm not going to say this tt is definitively better, that would be churlish.
However, PLEASE get your Salvation/Terminator up and running, I'm desperate for someone to back up my views, ha ha! |
Lewm, that's a very reasonable response. Beats the other thread I originated some months ago, where the first reply accused me of dishonesty, I was rude right back, and the whole thread got terminated!
The only 'flaw' to speak of is a very different presentation to music which in a lot of systems, and to a lot of listeners, may prove to be too uncompromising.
The combination of absence of belt drive time domain smear, which I believe to be maximised by the high torque administered by the direct rim drive motor, and reduction in tracking/tangential error by the linear tracking arm, results in a very neutral, uncoloured sound.
What was always present as an inviting warm colouration in my Orbe/SME V, I now believe in retrospect to be a layer obscuring a lot of detail buried in the grooves.
BUT, this very absence of warmth may be too much of a shock to listeners, since there is now a strong similarity in my analogue music presentation to digital presentation in the music. However, this is only superficial. Reduction of euphonic warmth reveals the full bloom of analogue that digital just can't match.
The facinating thing is that such unvarnished neutrality/detail retrieval can invoke two opposing reactions - some may well find it cold and challenging; others like me will find it totally refreshing, and redraw the landscape to position analogue ahead of digital, even in these days of improving downloads sound quality. |
Ok, another flaw, although this pertains to all tts. But the Salvation/Terminator REALLY needs to be level and free of vibration. Being a rig using an air bearing linear tracking arm, it must be perfectly horizontal, and is very prone to any up and down movement causing serious mistracking.
In fact, I really struggled with this to begin with: my rack sits on a floor easily flexed and prone to footfall. So as I approached the tt, fun and games with skipping was to be had.
I had been contemplating a wall shelf possibly incorporating a Minus K BM-8, but then came across the Symposium Isis rack. And this has provided the solution.
Now I'm getting perfect level and isolation, and the tt/arm can really shine.
But level and isolation are maybe more of a preoccupation for this tt than many others, and could be a deterrent. |
Hey Lewm, as per your request to mention the cons as well as pros of the Salvation to keep discussion interesting, I've done so, but as of yet no reply from you. Your input much awaited. If you have more to say, I can come up with even more disadvantages. But none that would ever get me to consider belt drive/pivoted arms again. I am the guy who was ready to drop my hard earned $s/£s on an SME 30/V-12, or TW Acustic AC3/Triplanar, and have NO regrets that I didn't. |
Installed a Red Wine Audio Black Lightning twin battery psu for the Straingauge SG200 cart. Maintaining all the attributes of my current rig, now with an almost-zero noise floor. Killer! |
Hi Peter, I did the rounds listening to the top SMEs and TW Acustic AC3. There is a real tendency for these threads to become a sort of one-upmanship, which is REALLY not my intention. I absolutely was impressed by what I heard when listening to both the 20, and 30 with the V12 arm. The TW sounded great too with Graham and Triplanar. I had been taking a deep breath in ahead of planning possible purchase of one of these, and by luck more than anything went down the route I'm now on, leaving spare funds for my final phono stage upgrade.
So, just for the record, I'm so impressed with the engineering approaches of both the SME and TW alternatives (who couldn't fail to be?), but the Salvation/Terminator has given me a different perspective on music I don't feel I'd have gotten from these two.
So, I'm going to desist from rankings etc. TBH, I was expecting a few more people interested in the Trans Fi approach, or even fellow owners, but this hasn't transpired, and short of requests for info/opinions, I'm winding down my input.
Peter, and Lewm, I'm sure we agree on a lot more than we disagree. If you're ever in London, I'd be very happy to have you over to reveal what I'll still claim is the biggest bang per buck in analogue. And a drink or two! Best regards, Marc. |
Lewm, yes, the Salvation is not more fussy re levelling than any other tt. It is indeed the arm that's most sensitive to this, as well as vibration. Was considering the tt/arm as a single entity. Careful setup really provides dividends. have been matching it with an ESCCo modded Zu 103 cart, another underpriced overperformer. Neutrality, transparency and tonality in spades. |
Just installed the Soundsmith Straingauge cart on my rig. Really taking analog to interesting new territory.
The Salvation tt is minimising speed/torque issues, the Terminator arm is minimising tangency issues, and now the SG cart is minimising tracking issues.
The end result is a bit radical, and would probably sound a little alien to those devoted to the typical euphonic warmth of most analog. It's bringing to the table some of the best attributes of digital presentation esp notes arising out of silence, from a lower noise floor, but combing them with the best that analog has to offer which digital can't match ie fantastic tone, dynamics and transparency. |
Hi Harold, good to talk with you. No, I use only the energiser box ie the base level set up SG-200. I run a tube preamp (Hovland Hp200), and felt no need to pay more for the SG preamp. However there are some reviews which rate running the cart thru one of SG's own preamps.
Certainly, the cart will not work thru a regular phono stage (not designed to).
I've heard criticisms the SG doesn't sound accurate or authentic with some voices, but I can honestly say I'm not noticing any of this. Quite the reverse, I'd say it's v.faithful to tone.
The only caveat is that it's v.sensitive to set up esp. azimuth, but now I've got this right I'm getting accuracy and tone in equal measure, quite the best cart I've had the pleasure of using. I do have a thread dedicated to the SG elsewhere in the analog section.
Are you at all considering moving to Vic's Salvation tt? A total giant killer. |
Al I know gentlemen, is that the magnetic bearing significantly boosts the performance of the standard Salvation to new levels. Differentiation of complex bass lines, with greater delineation of detail in the mids and high frequencies, is making analog more muscular and delicate at the same time. Quite a feat. And I still contend one would have to spend 15x the entry ticket, at least, to surpass it's performance. |
Peter, I'm sorry if my responses are a little too gushing. It is NOT my aim to offend any who've spent substantially on their rig. I'll phrase my comments more diplomatically in future. Just to say that I was ready to drop a lot of cash on the tt/arm combinations I mentioned, but haven't regretted going down my particular path. I do NOT want to say uber rigs are inferior, just that Vic's tech at an attractive price point was/is a hell of a proposition. But I would be proud to own your rig or many of the others on these pages. Are we still on good terms?
Lewm, price of Salvation w/mods and Terminator arm £2400, equiv to $5k-$6k w/carriage, US taxes etc. |
Hiho, this hobby produces more than it's fair share of worshippers: plenty worship Magico spkrs, SOTA engineering and SOTA pricing.
The Linn Sondek LP12 is maybe the best example, decades of true acolyte like fervour. To those who love it, totally justified. Me? I prefer a different approach.
All I know with Vic's tt/arm is that it's a Hell of an achievment: against the engineering grain, he's produced an excellently functioning direct rim drive tt and air bearing linear tracking arm. I'm not saying it's the best by any means. Just that I've heard uber decks, and those incorporating Vic's chosen tech approach, and it's up there.
And at £2400/$5k-$6k, it slays the competition at it's price.
So how many pretenders can you say show innovative tech, with excellent materials, and a totally competitive price? This would mean nothing if it's sound missed the mark, but it's SQ is right up there, a direct result of reducing timing and tracking issues, reducing noise floor, allowing full analog detail, bloom, air, tone and texture to emerge.
I worship great analog, and truly worship the Salvation/Terminator. |
Gentlemen, I hope my maths aren't incorrect. The Salvation/Terminator is a complete tt/arm combination. It costs £2400 ($5k-$6k w/carriage/US taxes etc). I've heard the Grand Prix Monaco/Triplanar at £32k, SME 20/12 at £30k, TW Acustic AC3/Graham at £20k+. The Kodo Beat dd tt/Schroeder lt cones out at £35k. So these 10x-15X the entry ticket of Salvation/Terminator. The first 3 I've heard, and it would have cleared out my cash reserves, but was ready to cough up.
It's not my place to say my tt/arm is best, sorry if I was too presumptious, and obv I may not have heard each in most ideal circumstances, or even in my own system. But the Salvation/Terminator gave me things I didn't experience at the other dems. |
Peter, I'm glad we've calmed the waters on this one. Tbh, I should not have declared so forcibly the Salvation/Terminator "supremacy", and esp. based on price.
I'm a pretty picky customer, and have turned down way more things I've heard than I've gone ahead with, so for me to so find analog peace with this rig more than anything gives me peace of mind that I'm done on this particular merry-go-'round.
As I've tried to reiterate, I would have had a whole load of enjoyment had I plumped for the SME 20/12, TW Acustic AC3/Graham or Grand Prix Monaco/Triplanar.
Re getting to listen to one, in the US I guess only if you come across an owner. Vic the designer builds strictly to order, and it was my good fortune that I only live 90 miles from him to enable my visit to his studio. |
4orreal, point duly taken - no more price comparisons. Just that the Salvation/Terminator really is at the bottom end of pricing in the analog world, and the rig gives me things I haven't heard elswewhere. But point taken, I haven't listened side by side w/other uber rigs. Then again, it's pretty difficult to do any top level analog home comparisons anymore. Just got lucky to reach my measure of analog audio nirvana at a practical level. |
Hiho - come back! I realise I may have been gushing like a lovesick girl. What would you like to know specifically, that may make you temper your skepticism of me and these products? I''ll kick off by saying that getting a fuctioning direct rim drive tt w/magnetic bearing, and air bearing linear tracking arm, at a real world level is a triumph. That it sounds accurate and transparent, but also toneful and textured is a great bonus. And the aesthetics and reliability for a non mass-produced product is a bonus.
Help me out, what are your qs/concerns? |
Hiho, I'll do my best. Linear tracking I'm sure we all agree is the theoretical best tech for tonearms mimicking the way the grooves are cut. But it's often too much of a tech challenge to bring about successfully. Well, I can say Vic has managed it in a package that is neater and less prone to operational issues than say what I've heard from the Kuzma Airline, and which at a real world price really gives an advantage over the many pivoted 9" and 12" arms I've heard. It seems to be tonally neutral and transparent. Now, this could mean a sound that is precise but bleached, but nothing could be further from the truth. It has a real start-stop quality like music in real life, but fantastic tone and texture, and this combination of speed and tonal colour is really addictive, and I for one won't be able to go back to a pivoted arm. This is all I believe to correct groove tracing, a short arm wand which is much less likely to be prone to vibrations, and a freedom from vibrations which transmits less colourations. Let me tell you, I so am unaware of tracking errors, that as I came to the lead out grooves of the first lps I listened to, the lack of side-end distortions meant I was really unaware the lp side was coming to an end.
So we have a tonally neutral, but full sound, with speed and transparency, and the elimination of so many analog like tracking distortions with no reduction in the analog "vibe", makes it pretty unique. IMHO.
So, onto the Salvation tt. Vic has spent many a long month finalising his motor to maximise torque, but maintain speed stability, and after many false dawns he found the solution, which is different in execution from say the superficially similar TT Weights tt's. I'm not privy to what these are, but I believe it's obviating the need for an O-ring, keeping the drive wheel small, and having the highest torque motor possible. Additionally, he has dispensed with a speed measuring feedback system like the Grand Prix Monaco tt (which samples the speed 1600 x/sec), preferring a totally analog system where the speed is set w/high torque, and is not sampled and varied accordingly. I believe many of the other dd alternatives have a low torque motor, with a feedback loop, to continually adjust speed. Vic I believe sets the speed at a high torque, and this does a better job at dealing with speed variations caused by stylus drag etc. The end result of this is a highly energetic sound, with very little speed drift, and hence a clarity across the frequency band, transparency resulting from microdynamics which are fully expressed due to maximised speed stability, defeating stylus drag variations, with no "jitter" introduced by digital speed measuring/hunting/adjusting microsecond to microsecond, and synergy with an excellent tracking arm. |
Hiho, I've taken some time out as you asked to precisely describe what I believe makes the Salvation/Terminator so special. But so far, no response. I'm still waiting... |
Hey Dentdog. Let me congratulate you, and I really do hope you enjoy it. I think you're in for an interesting experience. I believe you also own Zu Def 4 spkrs like me? You're OBVIOUSLY a man of excellent taste! |
Harold, you're not wrong. A total no brainer. The SQ well surpasses the cost.
Dentdog, was your purchase an end result of this thread, or would you have gone ahead anyhow? |
Dentdog and Tms0425, can you please post your detailed views on the Salvation/Terminator soon please.
I started this thread to highlight what I believe to be a groundbreaking couple of products at a totally affordable real world price, and to encourage analog guys to purchase them.
And I've been successful, but w/only my comments I don't want to give the impression I'm in any way trying to awkwardly promote them, or have an underlying agenda. A couple of recent comments suggest this.
I don't want to be a voice in the wilderness. I mean, what is the point of this forum, if it's not to share views and user opinions? |
I'm back in the room, boys! Well, for Salvation/Terminator to even be mentioned in the same breath as the L07D, it must be doing SOMETHING right.
As you all know, I'm no tech head, just just trying to interpret what Vic has said to me face to face, and via his website.
The magnetic bearing is bringing an interesting quality, which was initially frustrating, but now I realise is a major advantage - literally song to song on the same lp I can perceive different ambience/recording quality, more so than any other lp spinner I've auditioned. First of all I hated this, but as I realised this was a function of greater detail resolution, and just as importantly, reduction of colouration from the tt imparting itself, I can really concur w/Harold that the tt/arm is a true "time machine" to transport y/self and (my summing up) "open window" to listen thru. |
Tms, I'm finding an uncanny synergy btwn the Salvation w/new magnetic bearing, Terminator w/most recent Tomahawk wand mod, and Soundsmith Straingauge cart, reconciling what can be disparate sound qualities not often found together in components. Accurate, but soulful. Transparent, but solid. Ethereal, but grounded.
I'm sure your Soundsmith Hyperion will get there too. |
Dentdog, that's frustrating news. Don't fret, there must be a solution. Have you emailed Vic? |
Dentdog, has Vic been able to help you w/your SQ issues? |
Vic took most time getting the motor right, both in terms of high torque speed stability, using a smaller drive wheel to interface w/the platter, and careful execution of draining motor vibrations away from the platter, and hence away from the all-important stylus.
I've mated my Salvation/Terminator w/the Soundsmith Straingauge, and I for one detect no smearing or obscuring of detail on classical or jazz v competing belt drives I've heard in the past. But I bow to Thekong who has greater experience a-b'ing it against others. |
Dentdog, welcome to the party! Not many people here, but Vic prefers it this way, each tt is in effect a bespoke order, and he couldn't keep up w/demand if it spiralled.
I'm using his tt/arm with a Soundsmith Straingauge cart, and the combination is still giving me that warm analog sound with a great deal of digital-like neutrality and solidity. I haven't found this combination of attributes elsewhere. |
Vic strikes again! I've just fitted out the 3 existing Salvation feet w/3 magnetic ones (opposing rare earth magnets in the plinth collets), so now we have an air bearing arm, and magnetic suspension for the platter and plinth via the feet.
Unlike the other mods, this one didn't work immediately for me - until I realised everything was a little out of level as a result of taking out the old feet and fitting the new mag feet. Once I'd reconfigured levels, things started snapping into focus - mainly a big reduction in time domain smear equating to a clearing of hash in the lower frequencies and a consequent decluttering of the soundstage further up the frequency spectrum.
The giant killer Salvation/Terminator just grew a little more gigantic! |
Harold, btw is your name a pun on the old Genesis song from Nursery Cryme?
I believe what you're due to receive is what I've just fitted. I'm getting "interesting" results. Soundstage, treble info esp, and dynamics all boosted, but a definite change in bass tonality. Any time I get a change in bass thru an upgrade, I spend long hrs pondering whether things are improved (tube warmth or bloat, eg). When it comes to these mag feet, the seeming stripping of bass warmth was initially disconcerting, but I'm coming to the conclusion that the bass is tighter, more start-stop, less euphonic - v.similar to the changes wrought as I placed my Zu Audio Definitions 4 spkrs on Symposium Acoustics Rollerblocks.
But this change may be v. system dependent, and any tendency to thinness may be exaggerated. |
Peter, as you know I'm a big fan of the Salvation. Vic's mag lev feet take the performance to a whole new level. He has provided rare earth ring magnets of a v. powerful kind that screw into the collets fixed to the underside of the slate plinth. These then w/the weight of the tt drop into recessed magnets fixed into the collets/footers that sit on the tt shelf, magnetic repulsion allowing a small amount of "bounce" (note, NO oscillation, just a soft cushioning effect).
After 3 days, the sound is just clicking into place. Massive elimination of bass smear/euphonic colouration has led to a sound which starts and stops on a dime, kick drum shows phenomenal delineation, dynamics truly thunderous. |
Lewm, I 100% concur. I've been just as skeptical of audiophiles who've spent $300k+ on their systems, w/500kg spkrs etc, being TRANSFORMED etc by a single cable/puck etc. Tbh, it can rightly invite ridicule.
These impvts I've noted are incremental, even if my language seems more emphatic than that - indeed I'm sure that's what these mega systems are demonstrating too.
To put the record straight, the changes the mag bearing and mag lev feet provide if they could magically be transferred to my old belt drive Michell Orbe would pale in comparison to the initial ground breaking move from previous belt drive tt/pivoted arm to my current direct rim drive/air bearing design. Ie the big impvt change has been the tt/arm, all else are mere adornments.
What IS amazing is that providing extra layers of isolation (first, air bearing to arm, then rel frictionless magnetic bearing, and now the feet to greatly reduce vibrations even reaching the tt/arm/cart) is refining and expanding all of what makes this design a veritable triumph.
These changes may be in effect incremental, but they are no less impressive for that.
But I hear your point and concur in many ways. |
