One more thing I forgot to mention. Soundstaging emroved greatly with the higher VTF.
Andrew |
Here is a translation of the review in the German magazine Image HiFi:
With the previous top of the line Temper, one faced the painful choice between the V or W version; either somewhat higher or lower output and thereby somewhat higher or lower moving mass. The Orpheus now spoils you with more powerful output with lower mass.
It goes without saying that Seiji Yoshiokas latest creation also comes with his patented generator with ring-magnet construction and, as with the Temper, the coils sit inside the magnet. With this, the designer guarantees himself a more intimate coupling between the coils and th magnetic field, ultimately leading to reduced over-modulation and distortion and also avoids the rising top-end comment to conventional design moving-coil cartridges. A neodymium magnet provides energy and the Ogura stylus is mounted on a boron cantilever tht, according to manufacturer information, is newly designed.
The most notable innovation involves the body shape: finally there is a flat front surface, which makes mounting, not only with the Dennesen jig, considerably easier. Enabling the relatively high output as well as an internal resistance of barely 2 ½ Ohms are the already mentioned neodymium magnet, as well as, primarily, the material from which the coil former is fashioned. The designer speaks of an ultra grade SS μ-metal, that raises the sensitivity of the generator by 35 dB. This recalls the sx-μx, used in the My Sonic Lab cartridge, a metal with extraordinarily high permeability, with which so good as no saturation effects should occur, and which helps the cartridge to achieve such high output with such a low impedance. How much these metals resemble one another, and whether they might even come from the same source was unfortunately impossible to determine. On the other hand, Seiji Yoshioka no longer makes any secret of the wire he uses: He employs 7n quality copper.
As far as loading is concerned, the german and Austrian distributor provides more concrete information than the manufacturer, who simply states that it should be greater than the impedance of the coils. Since the sound of the Temper (see Image Hifi 50) can be heavily influenced by loading resistance, I begin by ignoring the recommendation of the distributor and use 40 Ohms. At that loading the Orpheus already makes music very convincingly, having just completed its break-in period. With the Concierto Andaluz (reissue of the Philips 9500 563) it images orchestra and soloists in both a big and unusually gripping manner. The entrances of the orchestral groups are impressive and also, whatever the dynamics demand, the Transfiguration is no sad stepchild. It brings the listener truly close to the musical event, which is also finely articulated in the deepest bass. The Orpheus exudes power and warmth. Just 45 more ohms move one a few rows back and allow the concert hall to deepen a good bit more. Also, the Transfiguration can now count itself within the categories of speed, openness, and finesse. All in all, the reproduction appears a bit more light of foot, but also a touch lighter tonally. At 150 Ohms, one can lose oneself in a huge virtual space, and dynamic events come on with an explosiveness that seems, to me, just a bit over-the-top. The imaging achieves less body and is less connected, threatening to slip into the ethereal. Therefore, I switch back to 85 Ohms. And that is, not coincidentally, the value that comes closest to the recommendation of the distributor.
Sina Kovacevic not only recommended a load of 100 Ohms, but also to hear the cartridge in combination with Tom Evans The Groove +, with which the Orpheus was supposed to harmonize particularly well. At least in my system, I was unable to uncover any special synergistic effects. The Groove lends itself to somewhat more reserved tonal colors, suspends very believable, enormous recording spaces before the listener and, for example, makes Gounods Funeral March of a Marionette Reissue of LSC 2449) an impressive experience. Indeed, the piece does not draw the listener any further under its spell than when the Einstein takes over the phono-preamplification. In Fact, the Einstein pampers you with minimally more resolution and a breath more air around the instruments.
Much more important to me than the differences between the phono stages is the insight that it takes some little time until the superior characteristics of the Orpheus make themselves apparent. It is fortunately neither hyperdynamic, nor super-spacious, nor even mega-technicolored. The Transfiguration achieves more in all the named criteria than at least 95 percent of all cartridges, but nowhere does it allow itself the least extravagance. I must acknowledge, that years ago, cartridges fascinated me that brought extreme performance in one category, thereby however, exposing small deficits elsewhere. Perhaps it is due to such grown-up loudspeakers as the Lumen and in this case the Avalon or such accurate cartridges as the My Sonic Lab, that my sensibilities have shifted and I now no longer run the risk of under-appreciating a world-class phono cartridge like the Orpheus. |
Sirspeedy,
No offence taken. I agree that magazine reviews are typically incomplete and this one does not give any indication on how it compares with other Trasfigs. I was thinking about not posting this but ultimately I thought that an additional data point, good, bad or indifferent could be considered.
I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts from the upcoming experiments. Have fun,
Andrew |
Sirspeedy,
Sounds like you have a good process for comparisons. Too bad you're doing most of the work:) We're looking forward to the results.
Andrew |
Neil,
I must be chasing the break-in game as you're implying and compensating for temporary effects. As I mentioned above, my observations were on an un-broken in state. I'll give it a try. Patience IS a virtue.
I'll load it down and then try the higher VTF;s as you and Bc3 suggest. Afterall, you have better and more experince than I do on these Tranny's. I will say, that even at these unoptimum settings this sounds like a great cartridge.
Andrew. |
All,
I've been playing around with an Orpheus lately. It only has about 80 hours on it. I thought it was a lot more but it isn't. Therefore, I believe my observations are on a cartridge that isn't fully broken in.
It certainly sounds extremely clear, transparent, clean and open. This is probably the best way to describe it. In this regard it sounds exceptionally neutral. As a result, it doesn't sound "musical" like maybe a Koetsu or Benz does nor does it have the highest level of natural timbre. I would also say that it has a slight edge and would say that this is likely break-in related. It is getting smoother as time goes on. Therefore, it might become more "musical" or natural to the degree that the Temper is known for with full break-in. I will let you know if that is true.
I did find the cartridge sounds it's best at 47K and with minimal antiskate force of ~0.8g. At 100 ohms it does become smoother but it loses in the high end detail and soundstaging. Although the bass was initially lighter at 47K, raising the VTF and minimizing AS solved that issue. This cartridge has plenty of bass at 47K. It certainly sounds a lot less edgy and smoother, yet still clear and neutral, on the higher end of VTF levels. I'm up to 1.88g and will experiment with the higher values that were suggested here in the near future. At this point, I would also discourage using the recommended value of 1.8g. I haven't experimented with VTA. I have only been playing it with the tonearm parallel to the record surface. However I will give it a try later. With a past cartridge I did notice that the highs can become edgy at higher VTA.
Overall, I would say that it sounds CD like in its detail, clarity, quietness and cleanness. However, some of the magic of Analog is coming through already. I can see how someone might think this cartridge sounds a little on the analytical side. But realize, there is no harshness, glare or dynamic compression here. Nsgarch has postulated that the Tranny's require at least 150 hours of break-in. He also felt the Orpheus could probably require as much as 300 hours due to its lower compliance. In my experience, cartridges loose their edginess with break-in and open up more. Hopefully this will lead to a little more "musicality" and natural timbre as well.
As I said in the beginning, these observations are on a cartridge that is probably only 1/4 to 1/2 broken in. I will have to go back and experiment with loading again and optimize VTF and VTA further.
Andrew |
Sirspeedy,
Great post! It appears you LIKE IT. Can you comment on your experience with setting up the cartridge and ultimatly finding an optimum combination of settings. I.e., what were the optimum VTF, VTA, and loading? How did the sound change by varying these?
You eluded to BC3, NSgarch and doug feedback. Did you load down the cartridge to 100ohms with a parallel tonearm and VTF of about 1.95-2.0?
Thanks for your post, |
Sirspeedy,
thanks for your response. I will have to try the higher VTF and the lower loading that Nsgarch suggests. By the way, I was afraid my comparison to CD' would likely be controverstial. I tried to say this in a positive way. I think Fremer may have said the same thing. Wasn't try to copy..only my impression. anyway, the O is clearly bvetter than CD playback. Even my 40 Grado was.
By the way, I'm up north and plan to do a comparison of the O to the Zyx Universe at Dougdeacon's place this Wednesday. We'll try it at 200 ohms and !~2g of VTF.
Stay tuned...
Andrew |
Nsgarch, Sirspeedy,
Yep. This comparison will occur this Wednesday. Doug's info has been a great help and I wanted to pay my respects!
Interest in this comparison must be great and a comparison would inevitably occur sooner or later. I'm certainly interested in the Zyx mistique. Finally the Zyx and Tranny camp meet. Maybe they would have been better off not :). Anyway, I think Doug will be fair and I will post my observations in an unbiased way.
As you know, many regard the Univ as one of the best. However, many also regard the Tranny's as some of the very best as well. And now with the O in the game it's about time these two meet. I suspect both camps will be positively surprised and these two fine cartridges are probably more alike than different. We'll see.
Andrew |
Nsgarch, Bc3, Sirspeedy,
We will likely start our comparison of the O to the Univ by setting the O from my last point of optimization. That was at 1.87g VTF, 47K and arm parallel. Doug is open to spending some time optimizing the O so we will move to your more experienced and thorough optimization settings. Therefore, we will end up at 1.97g VTF, 60-200 ohms loading and arm parallel.
I'll report back tomorrow on findings of migrating my settings to the group optimum settings and how it compares to the Univ.
Andrew |
All,
Here are my impressions of the Transfiguration Orpheus and Zyx Universe (copper coil, silver plate) comparison.
Firstly, I would like to thank Doug and Paul for a great evening. They were gracious hosts and I learned a lot about audio from their experience. Conversations, dinner, wine, scotch
.it was all great.
I found their system very revealing. Aided by the Universe, Teres table, Triplanar arm and Nick Doshi preamp their system was very transparent, open, free and dynamic (micro/macro) but yet very relaxed. One could hear very deep into the soundstage and the airiness around instruments was eerie. I had a feeling we would not have any trouble performing the comparison given this level of system performance.
We played classical, ragtime and some pop/rock material on Doug and Pauls system. It had all of the characteristics I mentioned above. Of particular note was how quick and sharp notes appeared and trailed naturally with amazing soundstage, separation of instruments and airiness. Once again, it was evident that the system was both very quick and detailed but yet relaxed and natural.
Doug then installed the Orpheus. Please remember, this cartridge is NOT fully broken in. It only has about 80 hours. More on this later. We let it play for about 45 minutes while we had dinner to settle in a bit. After some further playing, this was later followed by using some tracks on the Cardas test record.
Firstly some comments on Orpheus settings. We quickly settled at around 1.94g VTF. 1.87 was a bit too low and 1.99 was a bit too high. The loading comparisons were very interesting. We tried 200, 1500 and 47K ohms. 200 sounded very nice: natural bottom end and mid-range, relaxed but detailed, more airiness around the highs, and more three-dimensional, however, with less energetic, subdued mids and highs. At 47k, the highs became very strident and with a lot of glare. It lost its tempo, three-dimensionality, relaxed sound and airiness around the highs. Stepping it down to 1500 ohms did improve the issues at 47K, but it still lost some of the virtues we heard at 200ohms. At this point, a setting between 200 and 1500 ohms would have been better. So, the issue we faced was mostly the detail and quickness in the mids and highs. All of us felt that this could be solved as the cartridge breaks in. The highs are an area that do open up and improve with break-in.
Paul felt that the note waveforms were dispersed with the Orpheus causing a smearing and lack of sharpness. He thinks that the energy radiating to and from the cartridge is not being effectively damped and that something like the Schroeder arm might be a better match. Of course, this could possibly be due to the stiff, un-broken in suspension. Doug and Paul can expand on this.
With regard to comparison to the Universe, my opinion is that the Uni sounded quicker, sharper and more extended and three-dimensional in the highs and midrange. Once again, a lot of air around the instruments. The Orpheus sounded great but slightly less dynamic (but never strained), open and sharp in comparison. This could be a break-in issue. Personally, I felt the bass and mid-bass of the Orpheus sounded better than the Universe overall. It was bold, extended further and was more dynamic. I preferred the Orpheus in this regard on the rock cut (Yes-Heart of the Sunrise) and brassy/kettle drum classical tracks (Sonic Fireworks) we played.
The Uni is a neutral cartridge and the Orpheus displayed similar neutrality. It was said, that the Orpheus is more in the league of the Uni neutrality and not close to the euphonic characteristics of Shelters, Koetsus and Benzs. Therefore, I felt that these cartridges were closer in performance than they were different. Listeners with an untrained ear and to those preferring rock and very dynamic material might find these two cartridges close in performance. Although I do like rock music (+ classical), my ears are sensitive enough to tell differences and the Uni is better at this point in the break-in cycle in the areas I mentioned above.
My take away is that the Orpheus, at this infant point in its break-in, has some key strengths in the bass and mid-bass areas and exhibits an inherent neutrality, and lack of strain, that could allow it to evolve into a better performer in the mids and highs with further use. At that point, I would expect the gap between these two cartridges to close considerably and maybe even put the Orpheus further ahead in the bass and mid-bass areas.
Some (or most) of you are probably shaking your heads asking the question, why would you ever go into compare a fully broken-in, optimized Universe to an un-broken in Orpheus. Reasonable question given how these comparisons could sway buyers one way or the other. My answer: for the sake of experimentation and to have made the evening with Doug and Paul even more interesting. I hope people dont try to view this as a shootout with a winner and a loser. This was an exhibition match with the real contest much further away in time. The Tranny camp should not fret (there is a lot of potential here with some already apparent strengths) and the Zyx-Uni camp should not claim a victory prematurely.
Ill keep all of you posted on how the cartridge evolves with break-in and repeat the loading and VTF experiments in my own system. I would also like to take Doug and Paul up on their offer to return for another comparison when the cartridge is fully broken-in.
Lastly, thank you Doug and Paul for your time and generosity. I really enjoyed it. Analytical thinking aside, I had a smile on my face most of the time while we were listening to either cartridge. You have a great system and great music selection! Now I need to find a place to buy Sonic Fireworks!
Andrew |
Nsgarch,
Very good points. In fact I was thinking about drawing the same conclusion on my previous post but wasn't able to remember everything. In Doug's system, 47K was virtually unlistenable. Maybe his system is so resoved that this was picked up.
When I said that maybe something higher in loading above 200ohms might be desireable, this essentially implied that since the cartridge wasn't fully broken in we had to up the loading to get more pronounced mid/high end performance. Essentially to compensate for the shading of the highs in a deisreable loading range, as a result of insufficient break-in, we had to force more stridency by increasing the loading. I can't imagine how bad it might sound at 47K once fully broken in.
Per your suggestion, I'll try re-experimenting with VTF once fully broken-in.
Like you said before. Be patient and wait for everything to come into place at the lower loading.
By the way, I just picked up a copy of Sonic Fireworks Vol 1. I'm starting to feel bad for the neighbors. |
Mark,
I was quite surprised myself regarding the 47K. In my system with the CAT preamp I did not find the level of disatisfaction we heard in Doug's system at 47K. Personally, in my system I actually like the 47K a lot. Although 100 ohms was a little smoother in the highs and a little more natural, the 47K provided more detail, soundstage depth and ariness. Exactly what you described at 47K. It did not fall apart like it did in Doug's system. The only caveat is that I was at 1.87g VTF when I was experimenting with loading. However, if anything I would expect the highs would be smoother at 47K AND 1.97g VTF.
Very interesting. Either our systems are unresolving (but Doug's is) or there is an issue with Doug's preamp at 47K with the O.
We were drinking a 2004 Cote de Rhone by Andre Brunnel. Rhones are always a good value in my book. Scotch was Lagavulin-16 year.
Dan_ed, not sure where you're going with this. You have the Doshi preamp. what does this mean? We did put the O in the MM inputs to get 47K.
Andrew |
Kha,
Where are you? Since you're running both the Universe and Orpheus, what are your impressions. Your input would be much appreciated. Coimparisons? Ideal loading and VTF for Orpheus.
Andrew |
All,
Just got back from a business trip an caught up on these posts. I beleive Doug's comments echo my own to a large degree. As I said in my post, the Uni defintely sounded better than the O. I think Doug captured the differences well. The most remarkable difference to me was the Uni was very open, clear and dynamic. The O sounded somewhat opaque and flat. As far as the bass goes, I heard a difference but honestly don't have the experience with these tracks that Doug and Paul have; nor did we have time to really go back and forth.
Hopefully the O improves radically with break-in!
Andrew |
Doug, Larry,
Thanks for your comments. I appreciate that. I tried to call it how I heard it. Since some folks claim that their cartridges sound great out of the box or pretty decent at 30 or so hours, I thought it would be interesting to compare. Anyway, certainly not an ideal situation. Oh well.
I tried to make the following comments in a post on Sunday but it looks like it didn't go through. that is:
Intrestingly, I think the O sounds pretty damn good in my system and doesn't seem to have the flaws we perceived when comparing it to the Uni in Doug's system. In other words, the O doesn't sound flat, compressed and opaque in my system where it did in Doug's. I can happily live with the sound that I get in mys system. It seems to do just about everything right. I mentioned this to Doug and Paul while I was at their place.
That said, the differences we heard in Doug's system were apparent and I can only imagine how amazing the Uni must sound in my system. Hopefully I'll have the chance to hear it in my system some day.
Andrew |
All,
The sound differences we heard between the O and Uni in Doug's system with his optimal settings aside, I've been thinking more and more about why the O didn't sound as good in Doug's system compared to mine. My impressions of the O in my 9-8-06 post did not seem to come through when we heard it in Doug's system.
Of course our systems are different, maybe the cartridge was damaged in transit (unlikely) or maybe it had to do with VTA.
In my system, I have the tonearm pivot base adjusted so that the tonearm is moderatley higher than parallel. i.e., there is more SRA or VTA.
In Doug's system, Paul felt the VTA for the O was just right when the tonearm was moderately lower than parallel. Similar position used for the Universe.
I wonder if this contributes significantly to the differences I hear between these cartridges in the different set ups and maybe even to the differences between the cartridges. Maybe the O prefers a higher SRA than the Universe?
We did not try setting the O at or above parallel. I now wish we would have tried the higher VTA just to rule that out.
Anyway, I think another comparison after break-in and with a higher range of VTA would be fruitful.
Dan, Doug, you're welcome to head down to Atlanta to compare all three. If not, I may be able to make it up again.
Sorry to the Tranny fans for some controversial results. But as I said, in my system it sounds absolutely fabulous. |
Raul,
We did not evaluate a broad range of VTA in Doug's system . Paul tried several setting within a small range but I beleive all of the settings put the arm lower than parallel. Although, I preferred one of these settings, we did not make large enough changes to evaluate the cartridge with a parallele or slightly elevated arm.
The first thing I'll do this weekend is to see how the sound changes when I adjust the arm to be slightly lower than parallel. Based on doing this in the past, I expect it to deteriorate.
We only had a mistracking problem with that one track and I haven't experienced it in my own system. Can an improper VTA accentuate this? My cartridge did get wacked around just a little bit after running through two revolutions on a highly irrelgualr warped record. however, I didn't perceive any sonic degradation after this occured. Therefore I think the cartridge suspension is ok. As far ar the mfg recommended break-in time of 30 hours, I would be skeptical based on a) advice from Ttranny owners, 2) Bad advice in the instructions on VTF and loading.
We changed the volume between cartridges since they had different outputs.
Andrew |
Dan,
In my system I run the tonearm with a slight tail-up. I haven't verified what the SRA is exactly. As I recall, we ran the O and Univ in Doug's system with a slight tail down. According to Doug this provides a positive vta/SRA.
Anyway, I'll try adjusting the tonearm up and down from my exisiting setting and report back.
All,
Please allow me to take the blame for walking into a premature comparison and maybe not an extensive of enough evaluation of system parameters. I realize that this has only caused controversy and ill feelings between Zyx and Tranny owners. There are a lot of emotions going back and forth and it's too bad to see this. You guys are very proud of your knowledge and I'm sorry to see this thread get so testy.
I realize that it was wrong to compare an unbroken in, quickly optimized O to the Universe given the competitiveness and fallout likely to occur. In retrospect, we probably should have kept our feelings between us until a more thorough comparison could be made. Oh well. i'm new to this club and I guess I'm learning the hard way.
Doug, Paul, Nsgarch and Raul are great guys and have a lot of knowledge that has enabled me to prevent many mistakes and optimize my system. Obviously not all:).
At the end of the day, I really like the sound of the Orpheus in my system. i'll let you know how it improves in another 100 or 200 hours. Maybe then we can make a more thorough comparison.
Andrew |
All,
I've been experimenting with VTA/SRA on my setup. Using a maginifying glass I inspected the SRA with the tonearm completely parallel to the record surface and determined that the SRA was slightly negative. Approximately ~ -1 degress (stylus tip pointed away from tonearm base). I had to raise the tonearm approximately 4.5 mm to achieve an SRA of approximately 0 degrees.
This improved bass extension, tightness and detail as well as high frequency extension and dynamic attack. I also hear a little more record wear noise which probably suggests it's tracking the grooves more precisely.
I suspect the system might now sound better at 100 or so ohms. I think Nsgarch may be right on compensating for high frequency losses by increasing loading to 47K. I'll try reducing loading next and report back.
Andrew |
Bc3,
Thanks for your comments. I think to some degree the comments that Doug and I made have been misinterpreted or taken as absolute. Overall, I do not think that the difference between the cartridges was as huge as some may think it was. Therefore, I don't think it is a case of a broken cartridge. I think we just did not spend enough time optimizing the settings, e.g., VTA and VTF and the O was not as fully broken-in as Doug's Orpheus.
As I mentioned in the threads above, I was taken back at how different these cartridges sounded in each other's systems. In my system, it sounds very very good. It has incredible bass (especially at 100 ohms), is very clear, detailed, transparent and dynamic.
Unfortunately, the negatives comments on the O in this thread haven't been taken into proper context and the positives haven't received enough attention and appreciation. As truly incredible as the O sounds in my system, the Universe would have to be out of this world to really top it.
Anyway, the music is pulling me away. I'll try to avoid situations like this going forward.
Andrew |
Bc3,
One additional comment that I forgot to add to the previous post is that I have not experienced mistracking in my system like we did at Doug's system. As you mention, the O tracks very well in my system. |
Kha,
Thank you for your feedback. Much appreciated.
Andrew |
I think this thread (specifically comparisons of the Orpheus to the universe)has gone awry.
From my listening the actual sonic differences between these two cartridges were much smaller than what people are perceiving from the comments made by Doug. I think their use of phrases like "virtually unable" and "flawed" are a little unjustified in absolute terms. These comments should really be taken in context to the Universe, which was properly set up....and has a reputation to uphold (sorry doug, couldn't resist:).
As Doug confessed, we did not have much time to fully optimize the O's settings. After the experiment, I evaluated the sensitivity of the VTA/SRA and found that I could produce bomminess in the bass with HF and LF smearing when the SRA was too low. Increasing the arm height in my system above the levels we used in Doug's resolved this.
This comparison was flawed in several respects all of which Doug and I mentioned above, and as I said before, I'm a little embarassed for perfroming such an experiment which has led to unnecessary controversy. I think you will see positive press on the Orpheus as more and more reviewers get a chance to hear it. People reading this thread should not assume the Orpheus is a poor design or poor performer.
Andrew |
I wanted to give you folks an update on my Orpheus after further break-in and optimization of settings. In short it its sound is stunning! I'm loving life.
After using Nsgarch's method to identify the point of 0 degree SRA I increase arm height to achieve approximately +1.5 degrees. I am also now using a loading of 100 ohms. At this point I'm up to 1.92 g VTF. Although I don't consider this optimized yet as I haven't carefully experimenting with the recommnedations of higher VTF in the 1.97-1.99 g range. The cartridge also now has about 180-200 hours on it.
After this further break-in and SRA optimization I can now hear much larger differences between 47K and 100ohms and I'm prefering 100ohms a lot more. This loading has improved the tone and timbre of instruments and made it fuller sounding. 47K now sounds very lean and dry with out the realistic tone, body and natural sound I get at 100.
Overall this cartridge is very detailed, transparent,and open sounding. This has improved dimensionality drastically with a lot more depth, imaging and airiness. The dynamics have also improved considerably. Leading edge transients and attack are now very realistic. The most amazing thing about this cartridge is that it has all of these qualities but it has the most realistic tone and timbre of instruments. Some may call this beauty, etc. In other words it doesn't sound analytical AT ALL. I think the Tranny camp knows what I mean and this is what I was hoping for based on descriptions of the Temper Supreme.
I have to say that this cartridge sounds different and a lot better than it did 60 hours ago and with lower SRA and higher loading. My guess is that the loading to 100 ohms and further break-in were the main drivers to this improvement because my previous SRA was about 0.8 degree.
From my experiments with SRA around 0 degree I think the sound I heard at Dougs was mostly a result of an SRA setting too low. I find the sound gets muddier, less dynamic and dry sounding.
I have also gone back to comparisons to my CD player Wadia 861-SE with GNSC Statement mod and Virtual dynamics Revelation PC) with lp's and cd's of the same title. Where the difference weren't as dramatic before, the differences are now very apparent. Now the CDP literally sounds broken. I find myself i'm questioning if there is something wrong with it. In fact there isn't. this is just how good the analog rig nows sounds.
I owe a lot of thanks to Nsgarch. His persistence on pushing me to lower the loading and set SRA correctly payed off! You're the man!
Andrew
PS, I'll let you know how my experiments with VTF go. |
Doug,
Thanks for validating my observations. The improvement from break-in is very noticeable and it feels like it is getting better by the 10's of hours now. Like it has passed a hump.
I agree it would have been nice to experiment with SRA. I suspect that we were closer to 0 SRA in your setup. incedentally, the instruction manual does recommend to set it to a positive SRA and that a parallel tonearm does not necessarily achieve this. I found 0 SRA with the arm lower in the back from parallel and a 1.5 SRA is achieved with the arm higher than parallel. As I mentioned, at this point the 47K does not sound very good. In the beginning I wasn't getting much ariness at 100 but was at 47K. Now I get a lot of ariness at 100. As mentioned before, everything else is better too. You should hear the bass now. Pretty amazing. Deep and defined. Not tubby like we heard at your place.
Please come visit next time you're in Atlanta.
Andrew |
Tim,
Good question. The improvements were probably happening gradually but I heard a large change in the 160-180 hours point as if it had passed through some wall. The sound is now much more natural and pure.
Based on your experience, it looks like the magnification methods is not appropriate for azimuth. I'm wondering about the Wally device for that.
Andrew |
Doug,
That's interesting. Let me think about buying your share:)
One thing I do that is helpful in identifying "close" to vertical alignment is putting a small level on the headshell while the arm is in it's resting position an varying azimuth till the side to side level is the same as the TT platter. Of course this could only be true level if the cartridge base to stylus alignment is true.
Maybe I should get a mono recording or one with clear certain center image to assist in varying from this point by ear. In your experience, what range of azimuth changes resulted in optimization. 1/8 turn? 1/4 turn? Or less? Also, did your setting through listening equal the setting you obtained using the Wally instrument? Finally, did you have to connect your speaker cables to the Wally device or can you just insert tonearm out puts or preamp outputs?
Thanks Doug as always.
Andrew |
Dan,
I think we were trying to say the same thing. By using a bubble level you can get the headshell to be in the same plane as the platter. I'm only looking in the x-direction of the level. Not the z-direction. This assumes everything else is level. If the platter and headshels are both level (or a better way of saying it is at the same bubble in the x-direction) ,shouldn't the headshell and platter be in the same plan. Of course as you mention this assumes one is able to duplicate the bubble level exaclty. The only way I can see this not physically true is if the headshell does not have the same thickness.
By the way, I think the strip that came with the Triplanar is not perfectly flat on it's edge becasue you can see light through the middle even though the edges may be flat up against the edges of the bottom of the headshell. I'm thinking of getting a machine shop to make a "perfectly" flat block to use instead. I would agree that that would then be a better method than the bubble level.
Andrew |
|
Doug, Dan,
Here are some comments with respect to azimuth adjustment that were discussed earlier in the recent past of this thread.
I finally got around t ocleaning some more of my calssical records and have been now playing some mono recordings. Using these it is much much easier to adjust azimuth. With samll changes I can get the image very centered in the middle.
Now I know what you mean. It is very difficult with Stereo recordings but relatively it's a cinch with mono's. I don't think I'll need to invest in the Wally analog shop.
What a great hobby. Don't get this level of learning satisfaction with cd's.
Andrew |
Neil,
I did this in Stereo. If I had a mono switch I would not use it for the reasons Doug mentioned. This should only work if using a mono record in Stereo preamp operation. It may not be perfect but it did get me close. |
I wanted to provide some feedback in optimizing my Orpheus set up.
I have tried to further optimize the VTF so far. Recall, I have been running the Orpheus VTF at 1.92g. I suspected this could have been contributing to a slight leaness and brightness. I went up to 1.97 g based on the suggestions of Bc3. This improved things in all ways.
First, the leaness disappeared to a very large extent. The sound became much fuller and smoother without sacrificing detail or upper end extension. In fact, it is more detailed and extended. Most importantly, it has a lot deeper and tighter bass, it now has a very full, smooth and natural mid and treble and has more power and dynamics.
I think this is a lot more what a Tranny is supposed to sound like and I'm enjoying the system even more.
I'll try experimenting with the Boston Mat. I've been told that this tends to brightness. I suspect removing this will make the sound even more natural, romantic but yet detailed and neutral.
Lastly, I'll try some different settings with the VTA. I'm using ~1.3 degrees based on the method proposed by Nsgarch. Before optimizing the VTF, I thought reducing the SRA muddied the bass a bit although it did reduce, but not eliminate, the leaness and brightness. I think the VTF made a much larger difference.
I'm now enjoying a very transparent, detailed, open and clear sound but with very good natural timbre. I think this cartridge really bridges these objectives very well.
Andrew
|
Sirspeedy,
I'll re-look at VTA but so far, the 1.5 degrees seems to be working well prior to the change in VTF. But as I said, I'll take another listen.
doug,
thanks for confirming my findings. I wonder if the optimum range one uses above the mistracking point also has to do with the compliance of the cartridge. The Orpheus has a lower compliance than most and it would seem correct to be on the higher end of the range. I'll begin to experiment around 1.97g. I basically went directly from 1,92 to 1,97.
Happy Holidays to all. I'm presently in milan, Italy on business and have been enjoying some nice food and wine! i'll have to restart my diet on the 1st!
Nsgarch,
thanks for your help. Have not heard back from you in a while.
Andrew |
