Hi all and thanks for advice. The thread takes up a common concern but perhaps the question was too broad. So answers become quite general. Enjoy what works. Listen for what sounds good. Be patient. Plan ahead. Avoid complexity if possible but be aware that better-sounding and larger scale systems require time and money. Buy quality, although it costs more here and now. Check manufacturers customer support and solidity over time. Get a good tech. Make sure that older equipment is fully checked and serviced when repaired or upgraded. Avoid upgrades that arent really needed. Keep backup equipment. Make it easy to test the system and locate problems yourself.
Perhaps I overlooked something, but this is my summary for now. |
Thank you, Btselect!
I agree - more tubes, more maintenance. But they sound better (in my case) so I accept it - it is not a heavy burden although sometimes an output tube goes bad in the MA-1 amps (28 of them).
Fans, yes, I use one, a computer fan, slowed down to absolute silent operation (with a resistor), behind my preamp.
Electrolytic caps - interesting. I am getting a tube tester, and it seems I should do some caps inspection also. I am no engineer though, not sure what to look for. |
I find that keeping a log is a time-saver. I started making log notes for each product (in a data base) but found that it was more convenient to just have one document and use the search function. I put test results, web links etc in the log. So when I have a problem I can check, when did it first appear, what did I do to solve it. |
Not much activity here, but many readers. So OK, two more rules added from my side.
Be prepared. Have a backup when your system component goes down and must be in for (often lengthy) repair. This does not help with your cost but helps with the sorrow. Recently I had to turn in my phono preamp for repair. I am really glad that I bought a little replacement, so I can still play records.
Share with friends. Your cable is broken. Your friend has one you can borrow. Having audio friends or an audio circle reduces the total cost of ownership.
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Absolutely, agree! Is this a honest manufacturer, with good user interaction?
Check customer reports plus service and repair possibilities.
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Ventilation - let your system breathe...
I have no idea of the actual statistics in this case, but here is my theory. Component failure is in many ways a function of time x heat.
The more heat, the lower the durability.
This is especially relevant in tube components, but in others too.
I now have a computer fan at the back of my preamp. The preamp sits in a rather crowded place, in my shelf, and does not quite have the minimal distance of free air above it. This fix cost me $50 or so including some resistors so I could tune the fan down to totally silent operation. Works very well. Better safe than sorry.
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Reduce initial cost (but not always)
This is another way to reduce the total cost of ownership.
Example:
You see this marvellous "rocket ship" in audio that will liberate your ears and ensure a good life. It is costly but the reviews are rosy. The past will come back to you, along with sexy partners, good moms and steady fathers. You pull out your wallet - and then - too late - after some months of living with this component, discover that it wasn’t all that much. The "rocket" came a bit up, but did not really get into space.
The art is to invest in what is really needed, beyond such single-component adventures, to improve the sound system as a whole, and get away with it without going broke. Not the component in itself, but how it works in the system. Often you won’t know, beforehand. But you can make a reasonable guess, and invest wisely.
A problem in an expensive component is usually much more irritating and time-consuming to repair, compared to a cheap one. For the least amount of stress, we should all buy cheap components that are easy to replace! However we want some sound quality too...
The better you can adjust price / performance, knowing your way around the component and brand you invest in, the greater the chance that the overall cost of ownership will be low, with less stress and unforeseen events. Understanding the function of the component and how it matches your other components is the place to start.
Often, the way to go - in my experience - is to the mid-level of the branch, and then seek for good second hand / used market offers. But sometimes, I have only made things work by going to the top flagship level, with less rebate. This can be a pain for the wallet, here and now, but I have generally found that it pays off, later.
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What does the audiophile do, in a situation with shrinking income? Downscale? Let me think - I have followed this brand X for many years. Do I get a rebate, for replacements or upgrades? No, not to my knowledge. It seems that high level audio is soon just for those with big money, not those following their ears.
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Hi erik_squires and dlcockrum, sorry for a late reply. I agree that my comment 08-25-2017 was somewhat off-mark. I was really fed up, having waited one and a half year for the repair of a key component. But I am not trying to "bait" anyone into a lair - that's rather fanciful! Nor is the thread a result of upgrade-itis. WE have a problem of reducing costs and troubles with our audio. Not just I. If you want to contribute to the thread, please do so, if not, go somewhere else. For myself, the cost-saving measure over the last year has mainly been to turn off my (tube) system unless actively listening.
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Thanks, jb0194 - interesting to know how downsizing can be done without too much sonic loss.
Wolf_Garcia and Elizabeth - OK, tubes can be "too much", but does it need to be so? I agree that tubes give better sound (to my ears). That’s why I changed from a Krell FPB600 solid state system. I have had troubles, yes, but I think they can be solved.
The main factor of component breakdown, I think, is time x heat. If you give a component a lot of heat it will last shorter. If this heat come from solid state or tube amps or preamps is not decisive. Class A solid state runs very hot too.
To cool down - literally - my own cost of ownership, I now have two computer fans mounted on the wall behind the most heat-prone components of my system. After I adjusted them down to low volt, the fan spinning slower so I cannot hear it, still giving a cool breeze over the components, I am very happy., A 100 USD investment, or so, to increase the chance of components holding up. Even here in Norway, it can be come very hot in the summer, it was 32 celsius, a week ago.
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Mechans - yes a good headfi system is a low cost basic. I’ve learned a lot from this over the years. My Audiotaylor Jade otl heaphone amp led me to otl amps in my main rig - no regrets.
A good way to keep costs down if you have a good sounding analog system is to record it. I use a Tascam Da -3000 with very good results.. Recently my cartridge broke down - the diamond fell off the cantilever. I calculated. The diret vinyl listening has cost ca 3 dollars per hour. The digital recording just a fraction. |
An update:Two fans running, very low cost computer fans, adjusted for low noise, without problems - behind my most critical tube components.
Regarding heat x time:
I think soldering close to mechanical parts is especially error-prone. Like volume potmeters, or even cable contacts that are much used.
Examples:My Jade OTL amp has developed scratching noise, once more, when I turn the volume.Last time it was poor soldering. Seems to be the same, now.
My Aesthetix Io phono preamp had to be repaired and the main error was in the volume controls (with a lot of soldering), they had to replaced.
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Wolf_garcia, I do think costs can be reduced - by investigating before you buy, by taking the right kind of care of the things you've bought, and so on. Trying to reduce the chance of failures / repairs. Beyond just turning the system off. With lots of tubes, like I have, the problem becomes larger. But it concerns all equipment. Cartridges not least. Cleaning records - and so on. You know it. But so often, its like a shot in the dark. You send box B to a repair shop because they did the job with box A a while ago. But now they can't do it, and what is more, nothing happens, they just sit on it. I was thinking maybe Audiogon experience, called and collected, could reduce that kind of incident. But maybe not.
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Regarding vinyl playback - besides record cleaning, stylus cleaning, arm and cartridge adjustment, correct anti-skating and so on: dont drop the stylus on the lip of the record, so it skips. This means wear and tear on the cartridge. The "lip" is like a hill, and placing the stylus in the groove on the top of the hill is asking it to run downwards fast with no warmup. Instead, go a bit further in, adjust the arm slightly to the left, before lowering the cartridge on to the record. The correct starting point may be hard to reach on some LPs. Often the song has already started. If needed, first turn the volume down, and then go up when the stylus is in the groove. - Some LPs dont have lips, or only a very slight elevation in the beginning, but most have.
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Yes, this is my experience also. Former flagships or good upper tier equipment can become a very good buy, bought used, some years later. You just need to look for them - and have an idea, what you are looking for.
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Here is a quick tip - how to get your cartriddge to last longer. After a lot of experimenting, here is my "regime" for playing vinyl records.-
1) Use the Mofi record brush to wipe away dust. Before playing a record, let the record spin some rounds, using the brush. This brush goes further into to the grooves than others I have tried..2) Clean the Mofi brush with a toothbrush or similar. It should be 100 percent clean. 3) Use a small carbon brush to clean the stylus. This is sensitive, don’t overdo it. Keep the volume up so you can hear what you do. 4) For every ten LPs or so, I clean my stylus with a wet cleaner (Lyra LPT).
"Careful" is a key word, here.
Without the cleaning, the pickup tends to pick up much dust and dirt. With poor sonic results and reduced lifetime expectation.
The last thing you want, with an expensive cartridge, is that it fails due to record wear, knocks and shocks, and whatever. So, a strict regime for removing dust and dirt is useful. |
Snapsc - I agree, depreciation is an important factor, but not the only one. Cost factors, not just money but also time, must be seen with the benefits in view. If your listening enjoyment is poor, it is nice to be able to sell the well known brand component without too much loss, but it does not really help you. So I would add "components" not just brands. Maybe the brand is not so well known, but the specific component has recieved good reviews and user feedback. And the risk of losing money is of course far less if you buy it used, when the price has already "settled".
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+1 Keep it simple
Could we agree on two rules?
1 Total cost of ownership = money plus waste of time (repairs etc).
2 Also, cost must be judged relative to benefits in the ownership period.
So for example - you can invest in a safe brand to sell later, or invest in potentially best sounding gear, even if the resell price will be lower. Different folks, different takes.
Since I have a lot of tubes in my system, I've invested in a tube tester (Beck RM-1) despite the fact that it does not fully measure what is needed in the components I use.
It would be interesting to hear what class D can do. So far I've been hesitant, and happy with OTL class A.
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Mike-in-mc
Yes and maybe better sound would need less whisky - or you would enjoy a vintage more - ;
Say no to vinyl and tubes - for me this doesnt work. I am not mainly investing in my gear to sell later. I am searching for the best possible listener experience. However these considerations must be balanced of course.
Petg60
I mainly agree with your advice though maybe sometimes cart repair does work out.
Tubes - yes searching for good Nos tubes can be difficult and expensive. Yet again I would modify this rule. That is: search for the best NOS tubes that are in the most important positions in your system. Like the first tubes that receive the cart signal. Go from there and experiment if you have the chance. But often getting a new stock tube set from the manufacturer is the best way.
Example There is still life in my 4Telefunken 12ax7s in the first and most important gain stage of my phono preamp Aesthetix Io. I prefer them for musicality even though JJ 12ax7s in a recent stock tube set from Aesthetix are more silent. However the price for the Telefunkens is now extreme. I can live with the JJs also. |
Sleepwalker65 - thanks for a good summary that agrees with my experience. There are no absolute rules, but paying for "flagship" level may help later, yes. Or what you call OI investment. Whatever the level, it can help to be involved with the company, invest in upgrades, within reason (can be hard to determine), ask about repair possibilities. Being informed regarding RM investments can help reduce them. Do a bit yourself - and you'll experience many low-cost rewards.
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I hope the lack of recent debate in this thread is due to everyone keeping their systems in shape and their costs acceptable. Just a comment to wolf_garcia: it is tubes with me too. I also am amazed by how some NOS tubes esp driver tubes can be ca ever-lasting, for example in my Gibson guitar amp. My rule is to cut down on the hours when my tube stereo system is on, to increase tube life and decrease heat problems. It needs an hour or two to warm up. I try to limit this to ca 5 hours "on" per day, since it needs an hour or two, to warm up fully and sound its best. It is not extremely different from running a solid-state system, but a bit more demanding, yes. But then, when warmed up, there is no comparison, tubes rule. To my subjective ears.
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