Too Much Power?


I have a question that relates to the maximum power output of new Bel Canto Ref 600M monoblocks, which I am considering to replace the Audio Research 150.2 SS amp I am currently using in my main system. (Yes I am another of the "lunatic fringe" who enjoys the results of good quality Class D.)

The Ref 600Ms are  based on a Hypex Ncore module, and are stated to produce a maximum power output each of 300W into 8 ohms.  My question  is whether this can prove to be a problem in powering my Focal Alto Utopia Be speakers, which are stated to have a "maximum" power handling capacity of 250W each (their nominal impedance being 8 ohms).

I listen to mostly classical instrumental and vocal music and other acoustic instrumental music, and do not listen at particularly loud levels:  the ARC 150.2 is rated at 150W per channel into 8 ohms and it has never in 10 years appeared to go even close to its limits; I rarely if ever  turn up the volume control on my ARC LS-25 past the 11:00 o'clock position.

Should I be concerned about the Bel Cantos damaging the Utopias, given the speakers' 250W per channel maximum capacity and the 300W per channel output potential of these amps?  The Be tweeter and other components of these speakers can be very expensive to have to repair, not to mention the inconvenience and aggravation which I really do not need. 

Thanks in  advance for any thoughts or advice on this.

northernfox

Showing 8 responses by bo1972

Most people have no idea about the properties of an amp, source, cable, loudspeaker etc.

This is essential to understand why the stage and sound is what you hear.

Your ’older’ speakers are able to create a deep and wide stage. But.....you need an amp and source who can do the same.

The Bel Canto is not an amp what can build a deep and wide stage. I would never go for an amp like this. Not even for free. I would never give my clients this advice.

3-dimensional sound is the most exiting part in audio to create an addictive stage.

I would go for a Pass or for an older Krell amp. You will get all the properties you need. Audio Research their amps are inferior to the ones I just mentioned. Based on their properties they are incomplete.

In my world Audio Research is not a highend brand. For a high level in highend you need a wider and deeper stage. When we audition AR amps they never are able to create the stunning level Pass labs can give you.

The have more a sound than diversity in sound. Diversity is the most important part to create emotion for us human beings. The Pass shows more layers in sound. This is very important for the emotion and realism in sound.
In my world it is not about how it is build or which kind of system it uses. No it is all about what you can hear.

Like Guidocorona says: when an amp can reveal all the layers/diversity in sound and combined with a deep and wide stage with an intimate physical stage this is what you need and want.

Like more power wil give you always more control and grip. It is never a negative thing, so no worries about it.

In the beginning I prefered Pass XA amps, but based on my insight and knowledge these days I can create a higher level with an X series amp.

This is also based on the fact it has more power. I can reveal more details in the high freq. with it. I can create the same sound of a XA amp out of a X series amp. But I add it with more control/grip and details in the high freq.

You need to understand the properties to create the benefit with the X series over the XA series. Properties will always be important to understand the sound and stage. And to use it maximum.

I work by Tru-Fi, which are 8 parameters you judge sound for. When you listen to Pass labs pre/power combination you will hwar by Tru-Fi that it is incomplete/

This means that a part or more parts of Tru-Fi are missing. So what is missing?

instruments and voices are in real very small and direct. Almost all shows and in shops you see that instrumentd and voices are too big in proportion. Beside this the black level is nog that good. 

When you would use a pre amp what can create an intimate and realistic individual focus you will experience the music at a more emotional level.

At the end you need all the different aspects/properties  of sound what can be revealed when it is complete.


Thanks wolf_garcia

Soon you will hear the sound where I was talking about many years ago. Because we reached a level what will help many people to a much higher level in quality what is possible at this moment.

Audio needs to be created how music sounds in real. And then you need all the different aspects of how sound is being created.

But most systems show that they are incomplete. Each incomplete system always will have a lower level in realism and emotion.

The problem is that the way audio is being selected by trial and error always will be like a big gamble.

When you have no idea what all the different properties of each part of your system are you will never understand why the stage and sound is what you hear.

I learned to extract the full DNA of each single part. I was that focussed to understand why the stage and sound is what I hear.

Tru-Fi has nothing to do with personal tatste, it is based on all parameters which you can hear in sound.

That made it possible to create a higher level in realism and emotion. When I said; I have done thousands of tests, it is exactly as what I wrote. And I still do a lot of testing. It is the way how I work with music and audio. It is a natural way for me of creating sound as natural as possible.

At the end I do it so more people will enjoy music as my clients and I do. You want others to feel the same level of exitement and emotion.

The good thing is that even for prices many people can afford it can be created. In the last 2 years I had the freedom and options to do a lot of research. And now it is time to share it so many people will have a stunning sound for normal prices.
When you have met several people who are screwed by different audio companies I understand the feelings of these people.

Audio is very personal and I have seen people being depressed by the sound they had. They had any reason to be upset. It is caused by the lack of knowledge and missing true dedication in audio of those people who work in audio for their personal benefit.

I love music and audio and I do this with full dedication and passion. This is a thing what is not common anymore. I could not do it on the way most people do it.

I want people to be treaten as a human being and not as a number. People need to learn to have respect for their clients. I have to agree that it is difficult for me to be nice to the people who screw their clienst which I met.

When audio is only business for you, you will never become happy with your job. And you never will be able to add anything in this world. I think it would be time for these people to look for another job.

Many people in audio still think it is 1980. They often only sell stereo. And believe cd players are the way to go these days. They did not develope them and never grow with time.

I started to work in audio in 1998 and now in 2017 it is a different world. And there are so much more options and techniques what can create a superior level compared to 1998.

Most people in audio are not able to grow with time and have been stuck all this time. This has a negative influence on people who are interested in audio.

The other negative part is the low quality we see and hear in many products these days. This will also have a negative influence on people who are interested in audio and music.

They way people work and think in audio it will never get better, but worse. When you don’t change there is no way back.

Only doing it differently and more focussed on the needs of people there is a chance it could change.

But when you keep it the way it works now, it only will increase. I think there is nothing to loose. So give people more quality and a honest advice.









The positive thing in 2017 is that based on techniques it is a lot more easy to create a much higher level in sound quality for less money.

But in real we see and hear that many products does not give you value for money. These products are the ones who are responsible for the decreasing audio market.

The stories of people tell the truth and we listen to them. We don’t run away from it. No we help them to get real value for money.

We see them as humans, not as numbers or cash cows. We live in a world what is getting harder and more greedy each year.

When you would addapt and accept the changing world, you only will loose. So you need to do it differently and learn to look a lot further.

The audiomarket thinks that they can create products consumers needs to buy. What they should have done is listening to the needs of consumers.

And create those products they would like to buy.


The truth is hard I know, but you cannot run away from it. 

And when you think everything is fine you are blind and deaf. Confronting is maybe not the nicest way to communicate. When you do nothing, it only will go down.

The youth is not interested in audio anymore, but the main reason is the low quality it offers these days. When I give a demo in a 3D stage they react totally different. And they would love to have something like this.

Quality sells, quantity (and mannnnn we have a lot to offer) does not add anything to the audio market. The audio market is getting smaller each year.

So do you want to hear the truth or the thing you would like to hear?

For the last part it only will give you an illusion. Do you really think you will become happy with it :)


Thanks Tim, don't forget that english is not my first language. Our website will be in english as well later this year. The text will be rewritten by a pro. 

Even the text in my own language is being rewritten. It is nice to have these people around me :)




People with a 2-dimensional system like dtc owns will never like the things I write. That is more based on their personal limitations.

For example: compare any Naim poweramp with a Pass labs poweramp on speakers who are exceptional in a 3 dimenisonal stage and you will understand why the Pass outperforms the Naim.

Only people who have limited knowledge in music are able to buy a Naim amp. When you would be aware how music sounds and that music is never being played in a 2-dimensional stage, you would never buy Naim.

dtc reads things he does not want to read. He is a person who prefers to read the things he likes to hear. He runs away from the truth.

Facts also proof that any 2-dimensional system never will be used a lot after time. Based on our emotion music played by any 2-dimensional system will never be able to create a lot of emotion during listening.

Pass labs is exeptional in diversity in sound. Also during classical acoustic live music the layering in sound is what creates the emotion for the biggest part.

When you use a Naim source and connects it to a 3-dimensional system, the stage depth will be gone for a big part. This proofs the level in stage depth of a Naim source is rather small. And that is why it is a 2-dimensional source.