Too Many Tubes?

I've owned lots of tubed and non tubed gear over the years,but I've always been able to distinguish what output tubes were used.

Most el 34 amps sound similar, the OTL AtmaSphere sounded different, and so did the 300B and EL 84 amps all have a unique sound.

There is a problem somewhere in the chain if you can't hear any differences.
You have a lack of resolving power and somewhere there is a bottlekneck.

I don't believe it's the number of tubes that are used in a system as much as it is about how they are employed and what they are paired up with that is the problem.

My system has tubes in the cd player, tubes in the pre/phono stage and tubes in the power amp, yet I can distinguish between good recordings and those that aren't as good.

In other words the number of tubes in the loop has no bearing on the resolution of the system.
All music doesn't sound the same,you hear it warts and all.

Which is how I think a system tube or solid state, should sound like.

It's funny how many audio people are able to accept the benefits of tube rolling and its effect on sound for better or for worse but cannot digest other approaches to customizing the sound, like digital signal processing, tone controls, etc.

The results always speak for themselves and there are so many ways to tweak to get what you want.

So, it's just funny....

tube rolling & DSP are fundamentally different in that tubes may hv additive or subtractive characteristics in specific freq ranges, but they do not introduce addt'l layers of circuitry, s/ware algorithm, &/or other forms of complexity across the (entire) incoming signal.

"tube rolling & DSP are fundamentally different in that tubes may hv additive or subtractive characteristics in specific freq ranges, but they do not introduce addt'l layers of circuitry, s/ware algorithm, &/or other forms of complexity across the (entire) incoming signal."

The signal traverses the tube the same as it would a circuit.

They both affect/change the sound/signal as a result.

Plus circuits are the basic building blocks of electronics. Hard to live without them.

What makes one categorically good and the other categorically bad?

Doesn't make sense.

That's why its funny.

Darn stereos and circuits, always mucking with the sound!

I wouldn't lump DSP and tubes together as the same thing.
They aren't.

When someone uses tubes to tame some brightness, they may as well use DSP or experiment with different power cords or get a pre amp with tone controls.

Tube pre amps and amps have certain euphonic characteristics that their solid state cousins do not.
And solid state gear has it's own colourations.

What you prefer is the type of amplification that sounds right to your ears when used in your system.I can control the sound of my system, with tube or solid state amps, but they won't alter the sound of the room.There is a difference.And that should make sense.

I use a low wattage SET amp running tube rectification and 2 EL 84 output tubes.

I 've owned OTL tube amps, PP tube amps, EL 34 and 300B SET tube amps and several solid state amps from class A, AB, and D.

None of the amps made my system sound the same.
But they can't alter the "sound" of the room the amps are in.They only alter the sound of the gear as heard in that imperfect room.
Correct the room, and differences in amps becomes even more evident.
This is where a DSP unit comes into play.
Or room tuning devices.


If you have a bad sounding room, with no room treatment, poor speaker placement, it doesn't matter what type of amp you use,it won't eliminate the room problems.But a DSP used with any of the amp types above can change the way the amp and gear interact with the room,and transform the room electronically from bad to good.

Having said that,every link in the chain has a sonic signature, irregardless of the circuit or configuration. Everything influences the sound we hear coming out of our system, from the power from the panel, thru the wires and circuits and fuses and crossover and drivers etc.

We either accept the sound as it is or we tinker with it, and when that doesn't please us we try other gear or quit the hobby and become just another disgruntled former audiophile with an axe to grind.

Time has marched on, tube and solid state gear made today has less colourations than the gear made 40 years ago.

What I find sad, not funny, is that this doesn't make sense to some folks still in the hobby today.