TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?


Dear friends: This tonearm critical subject sometimes can be controversial for say the least. Some audiophiles swear for non damped tonearms as the FR designs or SAEC or even the SME 3012 that is not very well damped in stock original status.

Some other audiophiles likes good damped tonearms.


In other thread a gentleman posted:


"  If a cartridge is properly matched to the tonearm damping is not required. " and even explained all what we know about the ideal resonance frequency range between tonearm and cartridge ( 8hz to 12hz. ). He refered to this when said: " properly matched to the tonearm ".


In that same thread that a Triplanar tonearm owner posted:


" This is the one thing about the Triplanar that I don't like. I never use the damping trough...... I imagine someone might have a use for it; I removed the troughs on my Triplanars; its nice to imagine that it sounds better for doing so. "


At the other side here it's a very well damped tonearm:


https://audiotraveler.wordpress.com/tag/townshend/


Now, after the LP is in the spining TT platter ( everything the same, including well matched cartridge/tonearm.  ) the must critical issue is what happens once the cartridge stylus tip hits/track the LP grooves modulations.

The ideal is that those groove modulations can pass to the cartridge motor with out any additional kind of developed resonances/vibrations and that the transducer makes its job mantaining the delicated and sensible signal integrity that comes in those recorded groove modulations.

 That is the ideal and could be utopic because all over the process/trip of the cartridge signal between the stylus tip ride and the output at the tonearm cable the signal suffers degradation (  resonances/vibrations/feedback ) mainly developed through all that " long trip " .


So, DAMPING IS NEED IT AT THE TONEARM/HEADSHELL SIDE OR NOT?


I'm trying to find out the " true " about and not looking if what we like it or not like it is rigth or not but what should be about and why of that " should be ".


I invite all of you analog lovers audiophiles to share your points of view in this critical analog audio subject. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT?


Thank's in advance.



Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.






Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas

Showing 5 responses by pindac

Methods produced for Oil Damping on a Tonearm is nothing new to myself as something to be experienced.

It has been experienced as a Arc Trough and DIY Produced Oversized Trough with both a Vertical and Horizontal orientated Paddle produced to assess the impact a Paddle resistance can have.

It has been witnessed as a A/B comparison with a Identical Tonearm Cart’ with different Viscosities of Oil available for the Trough, in both Spirit Mineral Oil and Silicone Oil, as well as a Blend of these Oil Types.

This was done at a time when a alternative metal was under investigation for a Arm Tube, and not necessarily a homogenous metal.

I have no recollection of anything very attractive and indelible being perceived as having occurred, as a result of experiencing a trough in use. I do recall a few Oil Types were used.

I only had one follow up discussion on this methodology, which to me indicates not too much had a occurred to want to learn more about.

The follow up conversation made it known the trough was inspected under very high magnification and there was no evidence able to be detected on the oil surface, that a energy was being transferred though the paddle to the trough oil fill.

The discussions had that usually put an emphasis on where improvement was really to be found, was when the discussions centred around modifications undertaken within the bearing housing, for how they were an influence on what was easily recognised for being an impressive betterment than a earlier version.

The idea of a non homogenous Tonearm Metal produced from a Binderless 3D Printing to produce a Form with a particular spacing between between bonded particle is seemingly the real advancement to be discovered.

Technology today and the software that can control jet nozzles, places the Magnesium Powder as the material that has been most discussed with the Tonearm Designer, the metal that has much appeal for how it can control energy transfer as a non homogenous material, with Titanium Powder not too far behind.

I am visiting the designer builder of the Tonearm this weekend and will once more attempt to get them to take a proper look at Mycelium as a 3D Printed form for a Arm Tube.

This is as cutting edge technology as I believe I may venture into, in my later years involved with a interest in Audio and what the equipment can produce. 

Even though I say it is cutting edge Technology, 3D Printing as a concept able to produce a form is as old as CD.

Powdered Metal and other Particulate being used to produce a non homogenous form, with approx' 25% air space by Volume, is much older as a concept and working design, probably 100 years.

As a Layman description, I am not the man behind the Science.

These Forms used as a Binderless construction for a Wand will make transferral of energy that little more broken as the air spaces are now a place for dissipation of the transfer, resulting in diminished energy overall within the structure.    

'could be' ?, 'might be' ?

" You need facts or to make your own measures "

 

Following a very enjoyable day visiting the Designer of the Tonearm referred to in the earlier Post and once more discussing the subject of a Trough > Paddle > Damping Fluid. 

There is no change in the thought about damping troughs being used.

The Wow and Flutter that can be detected during a LP's replay is to be witnessed as a substantial improvement through improving Speed Control, as a result of optimising certain mechanical interfaces both mechanical and geometrical.

Optimisation is achievable through removing a common cause of eccentric rotation, being the non-true rotation of the axis of the Platter Bearings Spindle.

Keeping on top of a LP's eccentricity is more difficult as the cause is typically the off set of the Groove to the LP's Hole / Spindle Centre, not the usually misunderstood dimension incorrectly suspected as being the LP's Hole / Spindle Centre to the LP's perimeter. If the hole centre perimeter dimension was the only concern there would be tools available to substantially improve on the condition.

Optimisation can be taken further when addressing the interface created between the Styli and Groove, which is the next to be considered.

There are set up Geometries where the selection of the null points are capable of producing differing forces which will be exerted within the Groove, at certain positions during the replay, these are a cause of friction and drag, each capable of impacting on Wow and Flutter.

There are things that can be addressed within the Cartridge, especially the accuracy of the alignment of the Styli on the Cantilever, the alignment of the Cantilever to the Coils and the Azimuth when the Styli is within the Groove.  

The cleanliness of the Vinyl and Quality of the finished polish to the Styli will also assist with overcoming the presence of Wow and Flutter

When the mechanical and geometrical interface is addressed, the use of a dedicated Speed Controller will assist with a improved control over the electronics influence on the speed. 

These critical conditions when not optimised, are able to influence detrimentally on a replay. Their presence when non-optimised are not going to be resolved by the use of a Paddle in oil, and it is most unlikely the use of a Paddle and Oil, be it a Silicone, Spirit Mineral or a Blend of either, is going to be an adequate method for removing the 'entirety' of the impact of energies being created as a result of the presence of any of the above conditions not being optimal.

Even if the conditions are at their optimal, the Trough, Oil, Paddle is not going to offer much as a means to remove what remains as a unwanted energy transfer. 

Energies being generated, resulting with a proportion of unwanted produced energy, able to be transferred through a Tonearm, will have an amount of produced energy, able to be a bounce back energy, even with a Trough in place, where the result will be unwanted energy being able to return to source, ultimately to encounter and be an influence on the the Styli.