@imhififan well right now it is:
- DIN —> RCA (into the PIB)
- PIB —> RCA (PIB to Phono stage.)
The PIB plugs into the tone arm.
But I am going to a new phono stage.
Is there any meaningful sonic advantage in going direct from DIN to phono stage?
(I think in the past it was mostly a PITA to get the cable into the phonostage without jostling the TT.)
Maybe I should just do shorter RCA from PIB to phonostage?
I probably want to understand what the good and not so good DIN to RCA are.
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@pindac my lucidity issue is more with what to search for, or product name examples. Maybe I need to try a different search engine.
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This is the link:
decibelhifi.com.au
They should be able to answer your questions
Yeah I did see that right before this:
SAEC are unique in using the same wire type in a commercial product, and it can be found used in their $13000 Tonearm Model.
@holmz : OK? really.
Holmz when SME took in count its mistake with the knife bearing switched at once for the great SME V till today. Jelco was in the rigth " road " and now is in the knife bearing tonearm worst mistake. To each his own
Yeah really.
I am not sure how many times I can ask what is wrong with the SAEC in terms of how a knife edge affects the sound.
I know you think it is the worse (or next to unipivot), but I do not appreciate what that means in terms of the way it sounds, or how I could tell other than reading that it sucks..
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@holmz : Please follow the @lewm and other gentleman advise. You don’t need the PIB..
" I need to try a different search engine. "
I think not, what you need is to follow trusty audiophiles that give you " solutions on hand " and stop to follow stupid posts.
R.
I can only work with what I have, so if it looks stupid I can only offer and apology as that is as good as it gets. But as I asking, it appears that I am open to receiving trustworthy advice.
The PIB is as @imhififan posted.
I’ll try an older DIN to RCA I have laying around, and see how it sounds, and then go from there.
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Yeah @imhififan My serial number is lot lower, and the PIB is just around the corner (clockwise when looking down.)… other than that, it looks about the same.
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Contempt prior to investigation is a very restrictive place to be.
There is nothing like being curious and inquisitive, it is a great place to be, no matter what the outcome of the experiences undertaken, for others the healthy disposition has proved to be the mother of invention.
I think I am still curious.
You might want to try this tonearm cable Axon 24 Tonearm Cable – Nerve Audio
good quality and reasonably priced.
Thanks for that example.
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Well I appreciate the responses none the less.
And the specific examples (like the Zavfino.)
Thanks guys.
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@imhififan thanks for those examples. In the last “option 3” example:
- Does one use a specific type of wire? (Like a specific thin silver?)
- Which company peddles the DIN plugs ?
@pindac it appears like might be in the same boat, if one those IQ denigrations were aimed your way. (But I feel more like Gillian, rather than Thurston Howell III, or the Professor.)
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SAEC are unique in using the same wire type in a commercial product, and it can be found used in their $13000 Tonearm Model.
Both myself and a friend now know why SAEC chose this wire, out of the numerous other choices for them to select
You and your friend sound smart.
@holmz a Pure Copper Zavfino DIN Plug and the Chassis Mount Pure Copper WBT reduced eddy RCA's will be a good start for the connections.
I’d be stupid not to follow this route.
Thanks @pindac
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@rauliruegas , you are right. This is a stupid thread.
I cannot argue cogently that it is not a stupid thread.
But I have been, and am, generally remote in the sense of getting to shops and staying abreast of things.
(Sorry for being a bore.)
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@rauliruegas I’ll search those Zavfino threads out.
Thanks for mentioning it, as I would not have considered it.
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Well SME have a history of producing Knife Edge Bearing Designs, they probably sold in 10’s of 1000’s and guess what, all were most likely really ’ENJOYED’ by their owners, and I will even go out on a limb and suggest a large selection of individuals still ’ENJOY’ them today as being equipment used for sound reproduction.
OK
Well due that your analog knowledge level is so low for you " sound smart " but it's the other way around because no one audiophile with good knowledge level will choose SAEC tonearm with that " terrible " double knife bearing design, other than unipivots the worst tonearm bearing to mount any cartridge. I owned the 8000, 506 and 407 models that were the top in the SAEC line.
Well I choose it in ~84, as that was when the TT was bought and set up. So it is not like I found one on the side of the road, and thought “that’ll do”.
It was more at the time the dealer said, “that’ll do”.
If I knew what to listen for, and when the knife-edge bearing would be making chattering noises, then maybe I would be able to hear the flaw. But it seems to sound pretty good. I do have a test record coming in the mail, so I’ll see what it reveals. That gives me some time, as the whole bevy of arms is a lot to go through.
Other than effective mass, and what cartridges can work… there is also what fits on the TT… and from that list is I suppose tracking error and maybe rumble/chatter as objective things.
But what subjective things should be evident in a cheap old SAEC arm (like mine) that I should be listening for?
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I understand that English is not your first language, but I’ve told you before: the word "stupid" is English is an insult. There is no debate. So please stop calling users here stupid. I’m really trying to be nice about this but you’re derailing this conversation and I’m not going to ask you again, @rauliruegas .
Well in general I agree.
And I can only speak for myself to say I do not mind,
@holmz : Again you don’t read carefully. The knife problem was already explained in your threads by mijostyn and Dr, S.Win. but if that is what you like fine because who have to be satisfied is you not me.
R
You make reference to posts by Dr S. Win and also to @mijostyn , but do not easily see them.
Do they tell me what I hear?
(Or do they give me theory’s?)
I have asked a few times now how this manifests in sound.
I did put in the a new phono stage today, and things are better… No A/B test, but it seems a lot better in bass and MR, and perhaps some extra ability to cope with hot recordings.
And just better all around. I might be wrong, but I am happy to be wrong.
Interconnects also changed, as the new one is single ended and the old one was balanced both on and out.
so more than one thing changed.
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@holmz , it is always good to be happy with the results. I certainly hate it when I am not.
Not theory holmz but fact by design. As for effects on sound quality this is always hard to quantify. Whenever we buy new equipment it is unlikely that we have had the chance to listen to and use it in our own systems. We depend on analysis of the design, experience, and reviews/ratings. Mechanical devices like tonearms are relatively easy to assess if you understand what the device is supposed to do. Does the knife edge vertical bearing in your arm affect the sound quality? I have no idea. Can it? You bet. Under the right circumstances a transient at the right frequency in an offset arm can cause the knife to click as it is momentarily lifted off it's edge. Tap the back of the arm lightly with a small screw driver and the volume up and you will get the picture. Whether this can actually be happening with a given arm and cartridge combination is difficult to predict but, it is possible which is why people like @rauliruegas and myself would never even consider such an arm. If we could test the combination before we buy it this might be different but we can't. There are so many great arms with incredible bearing designs there is no need to even consider either knife edge bearings or unipivots
Very clear and well put @mijostyn .
If it is doing a tap dance trick, then it would only be doing it with the hot passages, and low compliance carts.
I know which albums to take with me now, to use for evaluating arms if the tracks are wookpeckering the knife edge, by levering it up.
I have always had problems with hot passages and maybe it is the arm?
I have had the thing for damn near 40 years.
And I am on my:
- 4th or 5th cartridge
- 3rd phono stage.
- 5th or 6th belt
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