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Toe-in recommendation for stand mount monitors

I've used floor standing electrostatic speakers almost exclusively for over 30 years and am transitioning, I think, to stand mount monitors. I've positioned them to start with in the same location as I had the Martin Logan Ethos speakers and the Odysseys previous to them. The listening area is about 18 X 24 feet with the speakers positioned 12 feet apart and 16 feet from my listening spot. From the standpoint of the often discussed equilateral triangle recommendation this is not ideal but I really have very little latitude.

Regarding toe-in, with the ML's I used their suggestion of the "flashlight method" as a starting point but for "conventional" speakers several articles suggest using directions given by the manufacturer. The speakers that I'll be using, though, are old, having been manufactured in the mid 90's and I have no manual for them.

I don't know if it makes a difference for the purpose of this discussion, but these new speakers are the original Serie Reference MMC 3A's manufactured in France. They're a mid sized speaker with a rating range of 40-20,000Hz which would accommodate most of our listening requirements but I also purchased a used Polk Audio Micropro 4000 sub woofer to use with them.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
broadstone

Showing 5 responses by broadstone

broadstone's avatar
broadstone OP
310 posts
 
For a very long time I've used the Martin Logan curved panels which are quite dependent on positioning so have possibly become a little over attentive to those requirements. I've had 5 pairs of these over the years and never had any of them in the forward facing mode. On the other hand, when using conventional speakers I don't think I used any but a slight toe-in. With these Serie Reference monitors, that's where I started, with zero toeing.

I'm trying not to become fixated on the equilateral triangle positioning of speakers relative to the listener but there are enough discussions supporting that setup theory that I think it's worth considering as, at least, a starting point. Right now the speakers are positioned 12 feet apart with my listening spot 16 feet from them in a room about 18 feet wide and 25 feet long. I can make some minor adjustments to the furnishings to put the speakers 14 feet apart with the listening position 15 feet from them. With the speakers this far apart I'm thinking that some toe in would be called for and I'll begin experimenting. I'm still impressed with these 20 year old speakers and am sure they'll be in my home permanently.
broadstone's avatar
broadstone OP
310 posts
 
Ok and thanks. I ordered the recommended items and have temporarily settled on 15 ft speaker separation with very slight toe-in. It sounds good and I imagine that there will be an acclimation curve having left the world of electrostats. The Ethos and MMC Serie are both great speakers just different. Besides, in many ways I think the monitors are going to be easier to deal with in several ways including having more latitude in amplification choices. BTW, I temporarily connected the Serie's directly the 80W Peachtree Nova which I normally use as a preamp to the Peachtree 220 and could could tell very little difference; trying the same with the ML Odysseys or Ethos' produced a not so acceptable result.
broadstone's avatar
broadstone OP
310 posts
 
Thanks, Tim. That's almost exactly the toe-in I used for the transducers and what you say makes sense. I do have a difficult room with an additional issue re a partial wall near, behind and to the right of my listening position. The effect that this has is dramatic when listening to out of phase test tones; as I move from the front wall back toward my spot, the sound migrates to the right. I assumed that the wall was at least a contributor to this phenomenon and more exaggerated toeing did help.
broadstone's avatar
broadstone OP
310 posts
 
Beemerrider, Thank you. My situation with this partial wall to my right seems (I think) to dictate consideration in toeing requirements and I'm assuming that some toe in is necessary to reduce the influence of that surface. I found also that moving my seating position 2 feet closer to the speakers and further in front of that wall also helps. In either position, I've had the speakers pointed directly at me.
broadstone's avatar
broadstone OP
310 posts
 
Yes, Beemerrider. It makes sense and sounds pretty good. Btw, I just parted with my 8th BMW.
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