Karelfd, thanks for your informative post. I would dearly love to hear Tidal electronics on the Contrivas, but this looks improbable here in the US. I even thought to come to the Munich Show, but really seldom can generalize from what I hear at shows.
These speakers are so revealing and sensitive to set up and they are evidently still well short of a full break in. I just hate thinking that I am not getting their full benefit.
My best opportunity will be this summer when I will venture to the US Tidal importer's home to hear the Ypsilon hybrid monos and the Sovereign Glory on the Sunrays.
Again, thanks for your post.
Norm |
Speaking from experience, and having had all models of the Tidal speakers in my showroom I can offer my advise for proper amplification for each model.
The first thing to remember is that all Tidal speakers like power, but quality power! These speakers will show off what your amplifier is made of.
I find the Piano series to play well with a good 100 watts. It's important that your amplifier is very stable into all impedances, and can supply high current. Therefore I would select an amp with a well designed and strong power supply.
Remember room size also comes into play. If you have a small listening room the amp won't have to work as hard to fill the air space. Large listening rooms can drain your amps power quickly, so make sure you have extra power in reserve for larger rooms.
The Contriva's and Sunray's are more power hungry than the Piano models, and they simply won't come alive if under powered, and you will lose the real magic these speakers are capable of.
Since the Contriva's have a single set of binding posts you cant bi-amp them. So a really good high power stereo amp or mono block is needed. I always prefer mono amps for a speaker of this caliber, and these speakers will return the favor with greatly enhanced performance. But don't try to skimp on your choice of amp to save a few bucks because the Contriva's won't let you get away with it.
The Sunray's are definitely the most critical Tidal speakers. They will put your amp under a microscope and dissect it. The Sunray's are also the most versatile Tidal speaker, allowing you to run single or multiple amps, and the option of adding Tidal's LPX external crossover, or adding the T-1 sub towers. I started out using 1 pair of Einstein 60 watt OTL amps on the Sunray's to see where I stand. My main listening room is 18.5 ft x 24 ft x 9 ft (WxDxH), and the room is professionally treated and tuned by golden acoustics. Pictures can bee seen on my website at www.aaudioimports.com , or please email me and I will send you pictures.
The single pair of Einstein MK60's certainly did a fine job of driving the Sunray's. These amps have been a favorite of mine for many years now, and on the right speaker loads they are pure magic! And will draw tears to your eye's. If the speaker load is not ideal they will still sound very good, but you will lose a good dose of their magic. Running a second set of the OTL's and bi-amping the Sunray's produced much better results! This was similar to what I heard with the Acapella Triolon speakers.
There are many other high powered amplifiers which will make the Sunray's sing. It really comes down to flavor because the Sunray's will mirror your amp. If you prefer to bi-amp and want the ultimate performance I highly recommend adding Tidal's LPX.
I hope this information is helpful.
Best Regards, Brian Ackerman
US Importer: Tidal Audio |
Posted by: Brian Ackerman / Aaudio imports
on behalf of Jorn Janckaz / Tidal
My name is Jörn Janczak from TIDAL, Germany. I want to clear some things if
it comes to the power needs of TIDAL speakers in general. Aside of private
experiences and opinions, I would like to offer my side as the engineer
behind Tidal Speakers and my experience with TIDAL speaker clients worldwide
for over a decade. Now my help and advice:
Electrically, one can run them also with low power amps and everyone should
feel free to check if they will be happy with it. About half of all TIDAL
clients do like to drive TIDAL speakers with tube amps below 100 watts and are
super happy with it. The other half drives them with very good solid state
amps and are also super happy with it. If a speaker is free of flaws and does
not colorize a signal, then one can "color" it with the amp of choice and
give it a preference in tonality.
In fact the Piano / Piano Cera / Piano Diacera series is the "hardest load"
TIDAL has, with impedance between 4.2 - 8.5 ohm, the electrical phase shift is
small, efficiency is the lowest in our range. We do have clients driving it
with 40 watt SET amps and are totally happy with it. Healthy 100 watt at 8 ohm
brings it even further and can drive it to the max, but it is not a must. As with
all TIDAL speakers it grows with the quality of the amps/chain/room. But
from the electrical side it is in fact an easy load. We never go down lower
then 4.2 ohm with these speakers.
Contriva / Contriva Diacera is an easy load at, 4.1 - 6.5 ohm all the time,
very good efficiency for a dynamic speaker with a linear (!) frequency
response. I had clients here in my demo room (40m²) bringing their 25 watt
SET amps, and it played amazingly loud and dynamic. As always; more power drives
it even further and with a real 160 watt at 8 ohms one can drive it already to
the max. excursion (depending on the software one is feeding this speaker
with) into an area where one can risk damage to their beloved ears already.
Absolutely ready for SET. And yes it can handle a lot of power and shows
that the limits can not be touched by 25 watts, but as always; it is a CAN
be, not a MUST to drive it with more power then that. Always quality before
quantity!
Sunray: from the electrical side - most easy to drive speaker. Even
though it has 7 drivers here, the impedance is almost linear at about 4.8 ohm -
5.5 ohm and has almost no phase shifting, the x-over inside is managing it
perfectly to melt all the seven drivers to a single-unit without any
electrical bug inside. Like other speakers can do with dips below 4 ohm,
sometimes even below 2 ohm. We have for e.g. a client driving a Sunray with
30 watt Audionote Ongaku amps in a big room (> 50m² with very high ceilings)
and it sounds great, live and dynamic. Yes, it could play even more dynamic
and louder with even more power, but the difference is like driving 120 mph
or 140 mph. In reality we all listen to normal level with headroom for
louder passages like in orchestral music, not crazy party levels. For those
guys, yes, we recommend power > 150 watts on 8 ohm. For all Tidal speaker models.
To show how "theoretical" numbers, here are some easy simple facts from
physics: 1dB more needs about a third more power, 1dB more is not to hear in
reality terms. 2 times more power just means a level increase of 3dB. Almost
not to hear. So if an amp has 100 watt or 200 watt makes electrical wise
almost no difference. About 10dB more means for the human ear about "twice
as loud", to make this happen one needs 10 times more power! That means: the
client with the a 30 watt SET amp would have to bring a SET amp with 300 watts to say
"now it is about twice as loud".
My point is; electrically one can run it also with low power amps and
everyone should feel free to check if they will be happy with it. About a
third of all TIDAL clients worldwide do like to drive TIDAL speakers with
tubes below 100 watt and are super happy with it. The other clients drive it
with very good solid state and are also super happy with it. If a speaker is
free of flaws and does not colorize a signal, then one can "color" it with
the amp of choice and give it a preference in tonality.
with best regards from Germany,
Jörn Janczak
CEO, TIDAL Audio GmbH |
My personal experience with a Tidal Contriva driven by a set of Wavac 805 SET monoblocks (Tidal Preos was the preamplifier) was that this combo was simply magic. There was no problem to play different kinds of music in normal listening levels. We didn't try to play it too loud but if someone is listening to music in normal levels he could hapilly live with such a combo. It was exceptional. |
remember guys,
think CURRENT as opposed to WATTS here!
Azjake |
Hi Azjake,
when are you expecting the delivery of your new system? |
Hi Geopolitis!
They will be ready by the end of November as will the electronics and all cables.
At that time Jorn will take my Sunrays into the listening room, cover it with fine cloth [to protect BOTHWOOD FINISH AND DRIVERS] and will let them break-in for 1 month to check all aspects with his team...
He will then attend CES 2011 in early Jan. and after it is over he will leave for my residence the next day!
He and his team shall be working the system for three 8 hr. days with full musical science gear.
My room will have been redone by then with floating walls and 8 dedicated lines of 10guage that will feed the 4 amps while two more will feed the analog pS Audio Regenerator and the Digital PS Audio regenerator
Last two will be to my SteveDobbins two custom tt's ...A Garrard 301 with Loricraft ps and Technics Mark3 both with Reed arms and assorted cartridges.
Digital is the Esoteric 1 series with 2 dacs, transport and clock...
I am still deciding on what racking system i will choose as i have both 3 headamps and a tuner to fit in as well phew!!! |
Azjake, what you are doing is awesome. I would look very closely at the StillPoint Rack. |
TBG,
I will certainly do that! Thanks for your advice...:-)
Jake |
Anyone compared Tidal Presencio to FM Acoustic FM 266? |
I finally heard Tidal Presencio in Taipei Hi-End show one week ago, and met Jorn in person, he told me there is new model of pre-amp is on the road, it can reach 97% performance of Presencio at friction of the price, yet single ended, no balanced I/O, let's wait and see. |
I recently had the opportunity to upgrade my Tidal Preos pre-amp to the latest version, Preos-D. I have listened to the Tidal premier Presencio, which has incredible sound and conveys all the emotion one would expect from this ultra-high-end phono and pre amplifier, but the Preos-D does get much of the performance and at more affordable cost.
In addition to the MC-phono section, that truly does sound amazing in its clarity and presence, the Preos-D includes a non-oversampling ladder DAC along with the line level inputs. I did not expect to utilize the DAC since I have a dCS Puccini, which has a built-in DAC. During an audition at Doug Whites Studio (The Voice That Is), we decided to do a comparison between the two DACs. Much to my surprise, the Tidal DAC even bettered the sound from a PCM source, offering more presence than the Puccini RCA analog outs directly into the preamp.
For all those who are enjoying the Tidal Preos, the Preos-D is a nice improvement and the DAC can make a significant improvement in the enjoyment of PCM sources. |
How do you like your new Tidal Contriva G2 loudspeakers? |
With over one hundred hours of listening on the new speakers, I can report that the Contriva G2s are outstanding. While I enjoyed the the Tidal Piano Diaceras very much, the G2s offer more transparency, better imaging and a seamless soundstage. And of course, with the larger drivers, the G2s can go deeper into the lower frequencies. Its now all about the music. |
I adore my Piano Diaceras. The Contrivas would be more speaker than my listening area could accommodate.
Though I am very happy with my current setup if I were to do any changes I would like to try some Tidal electronics.
Seems Tidal is rolling out some new stuff at the Munich show. |
The Piano G2 is based on the Piano Cera and as such does NOT have the diamond tweeter. |
After having spent a few days with Tidal Preos-D in my house this summer, I am finally buying one to replace my Sovereign Director preamplifier. Many people know about the quality of the preamplifier that is easily among the best.
I haven't heard many opinions about the DAC that is included inside. My personal belief is that the internal dac of Preos-D ranks extremely high ( I had extensive comparisons with my Stahl Tek Vekian and the Tidal dac is at least as good as the Vekian). So when someone considers the Preos-D he must take into account that he is buying top class preamplifier and DAC in the same time. It is terrific value for money even if some people think that its price is obscure. |
|
I have a couple of suggestions for those who would like to maximize the performance of the internal Dac of Preos-D. Try the Mutec MC3+USB either as usb interface or reclocker. Try to connect the Mutec to the digital input of Preos using a top digital cable ( my personal picks would be the Argento FMR, Tidal Reference digital cable and the Stereomatic Tombo Tron).
The above combination would reduce the incoming jitter enough to demonstrate the magic of the ladder Dac inside the Preos |
