@antinn ,
I've had nasal sprays before and understand what you're saying. Sounds like a good idea. Thanks!
When I first pull a new lp out of it's sleeve, if needed, I've always used a micro-fiber cloth slightly damp to remove any noticeable dust from the surface before I start my regimen. |
Yeah, $13.95 shipping for one or for a box of 10. |
@antinn ,
Thanks. With their shipping cost, to me it makes more sense to buy a box than just one. |
@antinn ,
Can the Tiger-Cloth be washed without losing its anti-static properties? |
Well I'm pretty damn happy now. I realized one thing I never did at all, especially between, fluid changes was to wash out my filters. Now, I unhook from the US cleaner, put that hose into a new gallon jug of distilled, and let that run through into an empty tank. Takes under a minute.
I've in my 4th week in the latest fluid change...no cloudy water, no discolored water. |
I replaced the carbon filter for my standard .5 micro /10" filter. It was just an experiment. I really felt it offered no improvements. Had to get it out of my system....the idea, I mean. |
@antinn ,
Thanks brother.
I'm in the first try with the carbon filter.I don't ever go longer than 5 weeks before replacing the water.
I thank you for posting! |
I bow down to the scientists here.....
Here's my update:
What I've found with the carbon filter is that it works well, I don't notice yellowing anymore...( the Versa-Clean has a dark piss color to it). After 5 weeks from a water change, the water is getting cloudy. So, I wonder if the carbon filter is removing more than the yellow color? Hmmmm?
Records still sound great!
The Vibrato is working well. After my experience with the Audiodesk (4 years). the Chinese tank (two years), now the Vibrato.....it's lack of noise has you wondering at first if it's really cleaning. (Remember, I'm going from two different 40 khz machines to an 80 khz machine here). The answer is yes! |
@j_damon,
Yes. When my Audio Desk was working, with it's fan drying, there was zero static.
Only now do I realize I should have done an additional rinse. |
If you register with Fischer Scientific, watch for the occasional sales. My last haul of Versa Clean was @ 82 percent off. |
@antinn,
You're post seems to confirm what I heard in my experiments. |
When I tested spacing (using SQ as the determining criteria), in my Chinese 10 L/40khz tank, spacing two records at 2" apart has superior SQ, opposed to 1" apart. I could hear the difference. |
@j_damon,
I assume your tank is 40khz? My new Vibrato is 80khz. I'm not sure if that alone contributes to the quietness of my unit or better parts/construction? |
You seemed to confirm the reason I have my set-up in the way I do. |
@jtmothyaI,
I'm continuing my quest with experimenting. I'm still using a Hydronix 5 micron filter after the carbon filter. I think you mentioned earlier that you'd not seen anyone use dual filters before. Just hang with me bro.
No downsides yet.It may be that I'll later ditch the carbon filter? |
@totem395,
With the Chinese tank, I found that running the cleaner while having the filter pump on for several minutes did a good job getting rid of the "slurry" in the bottom of the tank after sitting unused for several days. |
The Vibrato has a degauss feature. According to the "manual", if you run the unit for ten minutes with the cover on, in your later cleaning cycle, the temp will not vary as much. Well, for whatever reason, this works. Whether or not it helps in any way, I cannot say. |
On the Chinese cleaner I was always setting the heater @ 45 C with no real noticeable changes during the cleaning cycle. With the Vibrato, I'm using 38 C with the temperature rising to slightly above 40 C in a 30 minute cycle. Oh yeah, I was using a 40 minute cycle on the other cleaner.
Yes, the Vibrato allows 1 degree increments whereas the other was in 5 degree increments. Another big plus here! |
Finally received my new Vibrato www.vibratollc.com 10 quart/80khz unit. It has a frequency sweep feature/6 transducers. So I'm starting off with my earlier/same cleaning/pre-cleaning methods, same cleaning fluid. I'm using Versa-Clean @ 2 Tbl per gal and Kodak Photo-Flow @ 1/2 Tbs per gallon. I rinse under tap water then a final rinse with distilled. Then to the VPI for another distilled rinse/dry. The Vibrato is not as tall as my former Chinese tank which works out well with the Vinyl Spin as at it's most extended height, the lps are completely out of the water. Upon having everything filled and ready to go with the carbon filter I had bought before the old tank bit the dust, I fired it up and black water was filling the tank...... Note to self, (Always, run water through a new carbon filter well, before initial use). Now that is out of the way, the first thing I noticed is how quiet the unit is! What a welcome nicety. This unit seems to be a couple of notches above the Chinese tank in several ways. It's functions match (other testing measurement methods) more closely than the old unit. Like the actual heat setting....it's within 1 degree C of it's display. More to come.............. |
My tank quit on me. Upon draining the water, I noticed the filters. I'm using two, one is a 1 micron/5" long, the other is 5 micron/10" long. Both are the same type/brand from Hydronix. The 5 micron I had recently added to the system and it is first in-line. It is noticeable dirtier than the other one and actually dirtier than any filter I've ever used and checked since I've set this system up. Maybe it's the additional length?
I've put myself on the waiting list for a Vibratto 6L/80khz machine. Any thoughts? |
The Hotor AC/DC adapter I bought to power my Bay-lite RV pump...... I just had to replace the two prong AC end. The wire/insulation is crap. You can almost cut through it like butter. |
FWIW: I'm on my fifth week of this round of cleaning solution and the yellowish tint isn't as noticeable as before on many previous (4 week) changes. I've actually increased the Versa-Clean in this batch as well. Go figure. |
I seem to have solved my problem with the "slurry" I notice in the bottom of my tank after sitting for 5 days. In addition to circulating the water, I turn the cleaner on for 5 min. That has taken care of it. The additional filter doesn't seem to help that issue much. I am going to try a 5 micron carbon block filter in my next batch of water to see how it performs with my TDS meter checks. |
I miswrote...Versa-Clean ...showed 3189 ppm undilluted.
I think next time I replace the water, I'll check the new mixture with my meter and go from there. |
@jtimothya ,
I’m using distilled water. What are you using?
..................................
I just testing clean distilled...showed 0 ppm
Versa-Clean undilluted...showed 1358 ppm |
@jtimothya ,
IMO, saying rinses are unnecessary as a blanket statement, is false. Everyone has there own cleaner and depending upon how much is used, will vary and and getting all of the residue off will vary as well.
( "Time consuming" ..... we're all in the hobby of playing/cleaning vinyl records. If one in this hobby is concerned with time, maybe they should look for another hobby or software ?) |
I’ve had my TDS meter for two weeks now. I checked the water last week that was changed a week prior, the ppm reading then was 40. A week later the ppm reading is 59. Remember, I pre-clean/steam every lp before it hits the US cleaner. |
Another example of why DIY is better than Audio Desk, IMO:
I just listened to my copy of Eels "Daisies of the Galaxy" that was previously cleaned by my steam/AD method as of early 2018. It was ticky all throughout. I re-steamed it with the AI "down with dirty concentrate" then put it through my DIY US cleaner at 45min/45C/9V setting on the Vinyl Stack. The ticking is 98% gone, along with greater dynamic impact. |
I believe the slightly stronger pump helps clear my tank out better. The water still turns yellowish at around one month, (using distilled water). Look forward to checking it when the meter arrives. I still do two rinses then a vacuum rinse after the US cleaning. |
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@mayoradamwest,
Did you purchase your AD used? |
@jtimothya
I don’t own an Elma.
I actually have the pump after the filters. My thinking was this would increase the pump’s lifespan.
Installed the larger pump this morning. Went from 1gpm to 1.2gpm.
I would like to get a TDS meter. (Actually, just ordered one)
I have my set-up posted on my virtual system page. |
I'm now convinced with my current tank, (with it's placement of the internal water outlet and size), I need to get a larger output capacity pump to address my concerns. This will be the easiest, most cost effective way to go forward. |
So after two weeks with the 5 micron filter (complete water change), the water still looks clear. In the past, after several weeks, the water generally looks cloudy,(yellow). We'll see. |
Well I’ve had the 5 micron filter in for a couple weeks now. I’m realizing (what I referred to as hairs or fibers earlier) now that the "slurry" that settles on the bottom of the tank after days of no use, is just that. I watched as I turned on the pump and started leading the output hose around the tank. Getting close to the bottom I can see that "slurry" being moved up into the water and then looks like fibers or hair.
One of the upsides of this set-up (or downsides of my Audio Desk) is I can see and clean the tank. With the AD, one is very limited in this regard. |
@prof
I'm glad there's a choice for us all. The main point is you're experiencing the benefits of US cleaning.
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@totem395
Thank you for your post. As you see, my thought process had gone that way after mulling it over. It seems to make more sense.
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Then again, maybe a 5 micron filter as the first filtering stage? |
I’m happy with my newest cleaning solution. The stickiness on the rubber O-rings (Vinyl Stack), I reported a while back, was due to too much cleaning solution.
After the US cleaner has rested for 5 days, upon restart I notice what looks like short fine black hair. Not a lot. I assume this is vinyl "shavings".
I finally ordered my .5 micron filter to supplement my 1 micron filter. Should arrive today. I think I’ll install it after the 1 micron filter based solely on the higher cost of the .5 filter.
Really the visual "shavings" should be taken care of by the 1 micron filter. I think the real issue is either/or a lack of proper suction or not enough volume ability to be sucked out of the tank. Maybe a larger outlet of more strategically placed outlets?
For those of you with an Elma or similar unit, how is the design in this area. Maybe, like a household sink, the water outlet should be in the center of the tank?
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It's been a while...I've had my US machine off-line for a few months. I got it back on-line and running an adjusted solution. Since I'm committed to steaming first, I thought I'd reduce the Versa Clean. I'm currently using just 1 oz Versa Clean and 1/2 oz photo-flo in my 10 liter tank.
This new solution is the first time I've heard it with my new SoundSmith Sussurro Mkll. What a big difference I'm hearing with the new cart. Notes a even fuller, dynamic expression is greater, vinyl is quieter. Loving it!
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In thinking about all of this again...
There seems to be a concern for the lp to withstand the US bursts from 80hz above, even though it’s obvious that say, 120hz, which creates smaller blasts, gets into the grooves better. Yet we still play vinyl records. This consists of dragging a diamond through a plastic groove...over and over and over. BTW, this creates heat.
I’m trying to figure out the hesitancy that keeps many from the US cleaning method?
BTW, @jtimothya, I enjoyed your article. Very though and insightful. Thanks to @whart for publishing it.
Another thought, I realize some are searching for the ultimate effects of US cleaning. OK. Does it really matter. In our lifetime? Just think of all of the gems we search for in the record shows that who knows how they've been cared for (Ha!), whether it be previously played on a suitcase record changer, maybe with a penny, dime, or nickel taped to the head shell…. yet we bring it home and clean it with a US cleaner and all is fine. I think you're getting my point?
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@terry9
I contacted McMaster-Carr with my (specific) issue with really no valid response. Actually, it seemed to be a response directed at their stock, and I'd hopefully buy something.....
I've broken two lps recently that were on the VS overnight. These were 120gr/older lps that I thankfully have replacements for.
I'm glad to be reporting this to others before they have a more substantial issue, than I.
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I put on Keb Mo "S/T" over the weekend. I've since been working on it. It's the Pure Pleasure version.
Prior to my "working on it" it was 'ticky' most of the way through.
It is now, not 'ticky' at all.
My experience with Pure Pleasure is inconsistent quality in pressing quality and SQ. With some love, The Keb Mo is outstanding!
Another vote for cleaning records...and sometimes recleaning them!
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@terry9
I have a question specifically for you..
I'm currently experiencing the lps sticking to the O-rings on my vinyl stack, especially when/if I leave the lps clasped in it overnight.
Have you experienced this? Could it be a result of the Versaclean?
I've looked at McMaster-Carr for O-rings. Would one's that are chemical resistant be better? Any thoughts?
Thanks.
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Oops...I did it again..
I left a brand new 180 gram lp in my 40khz cleaner set at 45 C for 50 minutes and forgot to plug in my Vinyl Stack. I put it on another 50 minute cycle w/ the VS plugged in and can hear no harm.
(After my experiences with my 40khz machine and reading others' experiences with their 60/80khz machines, I'm becoming convinced that the higher frequency machines may be superior in cleaning the vinyl grooves.)
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BTW, the sonic difference between a 30 minute/45 minute bath is noticeable and welcome in my way of doing things. |
It’s been a while since I looked hear. Glad to see the continuation of this thread!
Here’s my current method. As you all may have noticed, I go in steps so I can evaluate things better.
(1) Use Audio Intelligent (Down With Dirty) mixed at 1&1/2 oz per 16 oz of distilled water...spread onto a lp. Then steam off. Both sides.
(2) The US bath.... Eight oz. of Versa-Clean, 1 & 1/2 tsp. of Photo-flo, to the 2 gallons of distilled water in my 6 quart tank. (40Hz)
(3) 45 minute bath at 45C
(4) Rinse at my sink with the sprayer with hot tap water. Then a final once over with a bottle of distilled water
(5) Vacuum on my 16.5 after the lp is dried manually.
Right now, I don’t think I need a 40:1 tank solution as I do the pre-steam method above. Time will tell.
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@dgarretson ,
Let us know how the tergiclean vs. Versa-Clean works? Please?
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@terry9,
Sorry for the delay. In terms of SQ, I cannot tell a difference. I do steam beforehand. I think my heroic pre-clean method needs to be a factor in my posted results here. I believe your "heroic" rinsing is still a big key in SQ after a US clean. I doubled the Versa-Clean after I wrote the post above to my latest water. I have not noticed any SQ differences.
After adding the Photo-Flo, I noticed a completely dry record after lifting it out of the bath and letting it spin for a very short time. I feel trying the additional steaming after the US cleaning is a waist of effort. I get a better SQ result from a warm rinse from my kitchen sink tap water/sprayer , then a rinse of distilled water, then a final distilled water rinse/vacuum on my VPI 16.5, the a De-Stat.
@bdp24 ,
I guess the appropriate discussion for music is elsewhere, but I agree with MF regarding the SQ= around an 8 on the PC lp which is alright.
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@terry9,
I just changed to brand new distilled water. The closest I can measure, I’m using 256 oz. in my tank when it’s filled properly. I put in 2 oz. Versa-Clean, & just slightly over 1 tsp. of Photo-Flo. The first lp I’m cleaning is a brand new Procol Harum "A Salty Dog" MFSL. My settings are..40 minutes / 45 degeees C / RPM = 1 revolution every 7 minutes.. This is a much lower ratio than you suggest...closer to 100:1. I do steam first with the Audio Intelligent down with dirty concentrate. At this ratio, great rinsing is still needed.
I forget,, do you use Photo-Flo in your mixture? For right now, my heroic rinsing is another steam of the lp after a US cleaning. That’s pretty "heroic"!
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